Aargh! Building Control idiocy

[Gervase]

Can anyone be a knight in shining armour?
A client of mine is getting hell from building control. I was trying to be sneaky, doing the work on her place as 'repairs and reinstatement' rather than conversion or renovation, so that building control wouldn't need to know what was going on. Included in the programme is a limecrete floor and three-coat lime render with roughcast on the outside, and three-coat haired lime plaster on the inside, with clay board ceilings and thermofleece insulation.

Unfortunately the client has engaged some local builders to put an extension on the side of her place, and they've called in building control to OK the footings (as per normal), and the wretched pedantic muppet from the council has now started demanding a say over the internal work and the rendering (which, technically, he has a right to do, as I was being a little sneaky).

The upshot is that he's demanding that the rubble stone walls - a metre thick- be dry-lined and celotexed rather than lime-plastered, and is also threatening to demand that the render be replaced with cement if we can't prove it's waterproof! Aaargh! And, in passing, he wants to know the U value of a metre thick rubble-stone wall, and of the limecrete.

My first reaction is to shoot the idiot and put him into the footings, but on reflection there must be material somewhere which will put a stop to his ridiculous claims and demands.

Would anyone here know if there is easily accessible documentation on how traditional materials can and do meet modern building regs (particular post April 2006). Or are we in fact now doomed to destroy the character of our older but unlisted buildings because of bloody Prescott's meddling?

 

[Sue Wilkinson]

Gervase, what a nightmare! I'm with you, put the idiot in the footings under a 6 foot deep layer of concrete. Its the best he deserves.

Meanwhile, is there any evidence in that book you told me about (arrived yesteday) that you could use and failing that contact English Heritage for advise. Does the Smeaton Project report (EH) have any useful info in it for you? Its available on their web site. I think you need some advice from them, or try SPAB as well.

In desperation I'd ring just about everyone, someone will have something. Mike Wye, Bob Bennett at the Lime Centre, Ty Mawr, IJP near Reading. They all understake this work on a daily basis, so must be able to combat this sort of idiot.

I feel for you. As if the Essex boy builders weren't enough.

Sue

 

[middi]

Gervase, as you know Building control officer will insist ( and quite rightly so to cover his a**e) that any new build or additions to existing comply with current regulation, especially on the " u " value side of things, If the work you are doing applies to the new build then you will get aggro, because I don't thing he will be able to refer to his current " bible".

If what you propose to do is on an existing traditional building and classified as repair and maintenance, especially that you are using traditional materials, you can diplomatically tell him to keep his nose out of it, as he cannot force anybody to upgrade an old building to meet current buiding regs.

Sorry, I am not " aou fait" with the regulation in you particular question.

Good luck

 

[biffvernon]

Keith Hall at http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/forum/ or some of the others who post there such as Paul Teather at CAT or Matt Robinson from Sustainable Building Supplies may have some ideas, though adding the muppet to the footings sounds the best plan.

Remember that the only bit of the Building Regs that is Law is the short paragraph called 'Requirement'. All the rest is 'Guidance' and is open to interpretation, negotiation and appeal.

 

[arl]

you should probablly bury him in lime rather than concrete - aids the decomposition i hear

 

[Pford75]

Whilst I understand your frustration, I can't blame the B.Control officer for not entirely trusting you.....you have admitted yourself that you have been economic with the actualite.

Whilst my BC contacts are not very enlightened on the conservation front, I've always found it better to be up front and honest with them and then work towards a solution.

 

[biffvernon]

No, they're a busy, overworked, underpaid lot. You shouldn't trouble them unnecessarily. Or rattle their cages.

 

[Gervase]

I've always found it better to be up front and honest with them and then work towards a solution.

Your local building control inspectors are obviously built of better stuff than ours in West Wales, where lack of imagination, inflexibility and plain cussedness seem to go with the turf.
Other than in my own patch, I should add, where the local building control officer is a neighbour and an altogether more sensible bloke - a shared bottle of Scotch has overcome many a potential glitch on my own restoration. I just wish he had some clout with the jobsworth muppets further north. *sigh*

 

[Gervase]

Hmm - now the 'other half' has got the bit between her teeth. As a solicitor, she's willing to take the issue to judicial review if necessary and possible (not just for the sake of my client but to establish a precedent for future such work), so any info would be doubly useful. At the very least it could put me out of business - and that's without even beginning to ponder the ramifications for countless buildings. If these imbeciles can set a precedent with their interpretation of the 2006 building regs we could all be up sh!t-creek staring at four inches of polystyrene and plasterboard.
Watch this space...

 

[middi]

Good on you Gervase, and it would be a great asset to period buldings in general if you could get the little Hitlers to modify their " bible" and be more versatile with certain aspects of new buid .

 

[BMcD]

I often find my first instincts to be the best and if The Other Half is a brief then I'm sure she'll get you off on grounds of extreme provocation

 

[Penners]

Gervase - don't SPAB have a telephone advisory service? I wonder whether they could help. Or English Heritage. They should both have a keen interest in supporting what you've done to (or should I say "for") the building.

 

[Ian Bond]

Hmm - now the 'other half' has got the bit between her teeth. As a solicitor, she's willing to take the issue to judicial review if necessary and possible (not just for the sake of my client but to establish a precedent for future such work), so any info would be doubly useful. At the very least it could put me out of business - and that's without even beginning to ponder the ramifications for countless buildings. If these imbeciles can set a precedent with their interpretation of the 2006 building regs we could all be up sh!t-creek staring at four inches of polystyrene and plasterboard.
Watch this space...

There really ought to be exceptions made for historic (generally pre WWI) , and Eco-friendly buildings of any age that rely on breathability.

After all, you can make a building extremely energy efficient with the natural materials, plus avoid the use of polluting cements and all the other nasty stuff.

I suppose the companies making all the modern stuff have the most say when it comes to influencing the regs, as opposed to the smaller group of eco builders and enthusiasts.

Where are all these expensive, tax payer funded 'conservation' organizations when you need 'em - busily doing what they're told I expect, rather than fighting our corner.

What a pain-in-the-@rse.

Ian
(ex tax-payer)

 

[Penners]

Ian (ex tax-payer)

Ian - I like the sound of that "ex". Any tips on how you achieved it?

 

[Gervase]

Where are all these expensive, tax payer funded 'conservation' organizations when you need 'em - busily doing what they're told I expect, rather than fighting our corner.

SPAB, EH and Cadw are already being canvassed for support - but the trouble is 'publicly funded' doesn't add up to an awful lot. None of them actually has a lot of money to spend, and they are trying. EH is in the middle of drafting a response to the ramifications of Part L of the new regs, and I'm hoping to be able to draw on that. Trouble is, it's the worst time of year, as most offices are running on a skeleton staff.

Most of the other heritage and conservation groups rely on donations and volunteers to run - with most being so cash-strapped they can't even afford a blooming photocopier! The ameinity groups, like th Gergian Society et al, get a very small amount of public money to cover their costs as consultants on planning matters, but it's not enough to help them fight battles - sadly.

Hence my appeal to the expertise here. I've got quite a few irons in the fire, but this seems the best place to find those who have had similar battles.

 

[Ian Bond]

Yep, it was EH I was thinking of.

I hope that they don't just confine the get-out-clauses to listed buildings, as many (like mine) aint. And being forced to treat my house as though it was built last week, does not appeal.

Good luck with the battle, I'd better read up on the latest regs so I have more of an idea what's going on.

Cheers

Ian

Penners - I should qualify that, as ex Income-tax payer, now that I'm a 'Job Seeker' again !!!!!

There's no escaping the tax man - the rotters are even having a chunk of my pittance of redundancy pay-off (well the pay in lieu of notice bit). Bah!

 

[Ian Bond]

Well, I've just read the new Part L doc and my head is hurting. A lot.

I'm still searching for a definition of an historic building for the purposes of the regs.

I've already seen the effects of change of use - a nearby house converted to flats - all the lovely 2/2 sash windows (in excellent condition) replaced with uPVC horrors.

With all these regs, simple building jobs now look more complex to me than some of the IT stuff I used to do

More research required, I think.

 

[Keycare]

One aspect of building control with relation to rennovations is that you cannot make matters worse, but they can be the same or better.

e.g. taking a concrete floor up that has a DPM but has no insulation does not mean that when you re-lay you have to introduce insulation, you just can't take the DPM away.

This is of course a different story if you are extending.

 

[NT]

The simplest way to end all hassle is to decide to not do the work. For now.

NT

 

[Gervase]

Yep, it was EH I was thinking of.

I hope that they don't just confine the get-out-clauses to listed buildings, as many (like mine) aint.

Hmm - Cadw seem to have the same sort of material in their backbone. They've replied saying that, as the building isn't listed, it would be 'inappropriate' for them to make any comment.

Words fail me...

The IHBC, however, is proving to be extremely helpful, as is the Buiilding Limes Forum. I shall keep you posted.