A plague of plastic windows....

[Lime]

Growing up abroad, and coming across sash windows in my 30s, I saw a problem in the fact that only 50% of the window could be opened, but a great design feature in there being no space required for the opening movement.

I don't think it a problem, more a feature of the design.
However, as well as there "being no space required for the opening movement" the actual variation of ventilation (important in all houses) is infinitely variable dependant on the position of the two sashes.
Slightly open there is a "trickle" of air passing between the centre section which can direct the air movement up and away from the occupant and is ideal for the prevention of condensation.
No other window design is so versatile and yet compact.

 

[Gareth Hughes]

Note the interesting choice of "old fashioned" rather than, say, "traditional" in this article:

http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/newshome/Southsea-pensioner-falls-foul-of.5404219.jp

Southsea pensioner falls foul of window regulation
Published Date: 26 June 2009
A pensioner has been ordered to rip out new double-glazing and restore old-fashioned sash windows at his home.
Richard Tucker replaced the ageing windows of his two-storey house in Pelham Road, Southsea, to make it warmer and safer for him and his wife.

 

[robgil]

'safer' for him and his wife?

 

[Gareth Hughes]

'safer' for him and his wife?

Of course! didn't you know, timber windows are well-known for creeping into you bedroom at night and murdering you as you sleep...

 

[Flyfisher]

A properly maintained sash window is a pleasure to live with.

Fair enough, but "properly maintained" is the whole point isn't it? Sashes generally require more maintenance and are more difficult to maintain than, say, casements. Even just painting them is a more tricky process if you are to avoid sticking the sashes to the runners. I suspect most people here don't have a problem with the need for this extra care, but that might not be representative of the whole population hence, perhaps, why plastic seems to be so popular. I'm not defending it, just trying to understand it.

 

[Feltwell]

I think Flyfisher's right on the "mentality" thing. I have a house opposite where 1 side is busy replacing the wooden fence that seperates them, and they want to paint the new fence. Chap on the other side, who is doing nothing to help, doesn't want the neighbour to paint his own side as "some paint is bound to come through and it means I've got to paint my side then" - basically he's lazy.

A lot of people would far rather get the credit card out and replace windows than contemplate working on them. Of course you can get someone else to repair your original windows, but if you put UPVC in it's "maintenance-free" of course - as the widely held myth has it - so you need never bother with them again - which we all know is not true.

One of the blokes who works for me is typical - he hurriedly got his windows changed for UPVC when he found out his local council was thinking of making where he lives a conservation area.... :roll:

I think it's a combination of people wanting the easiest option, not knowing that original sashes can be restored and believeing that their new UPVC windows will last forever.

I suspect that much as Artex and Avocado bath suites were all the rage in the 70's and are now viewed as being hideously naff, so will laminate flooring and UPVC windows be viewed in a few years time. Difference is laminate flooring can just be ripped up.

 

[Lime]

A properly maintained sash window is a pleasure to live with.

Fair enough, but "properly maintained" is the whole point isn't it? Sashes generally require more maintenance and are more difficult to maintain than, say, casements. Even just painting them is a more tricky process if you are to avoid sticking the sashes to the runners. I suspect most people here don't have a problem with the need for this extra care, but that might not be representative of the whole population hence, perhaps, why plastic seems to be so popular. I'm not defending it, just trying to understand it.

What is the value of comparing a window that may more than 100 years old and has seen little maintainance with something brand new?
It seems an odd argument.
"Properly maintained" isn't rocket science nor is it particularly difficult to do.
Nor do they require more maintainance than other windows.... just some maintainance will do. (as apposed to covering up with paint)
Perhaps the weakness of sash windows is there ability to survive over many decades of total neglect while all other windows fail miserably and MUST be repaired or replaced.
There are not very many casement windows over 50 years old of either wood or metal but 1000s of sash still in existence.
Proof of the pudding and all that.

As to the mental thing I think it boils down to whatever is the easier thing to do (easier meaning least effort) coupled with the fact that proper repair requires skill and understanding... something lacking in this modern world.

 

[Flyfisher]

I think that last sentence sums it up quite nicely. Plastic windows might just be a logical progression of the general disposable nature of many things these days where it's usually cheaper to replace something than to have it repaired. Let's be honest; plastic windows are maintenance-free - do nothing to them for 25 years then simply replace them. Much easier, and probably cheaper, than having them painted every couple of years, and pretty much in line with what we all do with our PCs, phones, cameras, fridges, washing machines etc. (except that plastic windows generally last longer than these examples)

Well, not all of us, obviously, but the vast majority. And it keeps the economy going as well.

 

[MdB]

Let's be honest; plastic windows are maintenance-free - do nothing to them for 25 years then simply replace them.

I wish.

I've just tiled around one of our 13 year old plastic windows with white tiles and it had really shown how grey/yellow the plastic has gone. Most of the other windows have handles that are rather loose and I've already replaced the locking mechanism on one window. I would also guess that around a third have "popped" and show signs of condensation within the panes of double glazing. They were also badly fitted with water penetration around the frames.

When we have the money, they will be replaced with good quality wooden windows. Unfortunately, we are not rich yet....

 

[Flyfisher]

OK, I stand corrected. Guess I got carried away with all the marketing junk mail I receive.

 

[AMc]

FWIW PVCu windows can be recycled
http://www.buildingtalk.com/news/vek/vek124.html

Having lived in 70's and 80's houses with carp single glazed windows I can see why my parents replaced them with plastic which BRE expects to last >35 years.

They are completely inappropriate for period homes and I give no quarter there though!

 

[Schoolmarm]

OK, I stand corrected. Guess I got carried away with all the marketing junk mail I receive.

:lol: :lol:


We are lucky to have the luffly plastic windows. Several handles have broken off

 

[Feltwell]

Someone at the BBC News likes sashes it seems.

Check out point 9.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/8124218.stm

 

[Flyfisher]

I'm going with point 10.