A good deal

[Moo]

A while back, Penners recommended The Bath Store as a source of reasonably priced stuff, so I trotted there this morning.
I need to transform a very dreary bathroom into something really snazzy (thinking of selling the little house we've rented out for the past twelve years).

They had a really good selection, and I ended up choosing a shower-bath**, taps, shower, basin+taps and a loo for the princely sum of £1600, which I don't think is at all bad But the best thing is that, having paid a 10 per cent deposit, it can all stay in their warehouse until I'm ready for it - even if it takes over a year. And I could (if I didn't need it immediately) pay off chunks of the balance as and when I felt like it.
Apparently a lot of people take advantage of this by buying in the January sale, which means that the price is 'frozen' even if they don't take delivery and pay off the balance until much later in the year. Or change my mind and get the deposit back.

I only wish I'd known that when we were doing up son's house!

**A bath that has a sort of bulge at the tap end + a curved screen. The one I've chosen is all straight lines, and the screen encloses not just the side but goes across the bath as well, so it's just like standing in a proper shower cubicle.

 

[Penners]

A bath that has a sort of bulge at the tap end

Sounds good, Moo.

Did you happen to notice whether they also make baths with a bulge in the middle? One of those might suit me rather better.

 

[Moo]

I think that what you need, Penners, is one of those quadrant shaped baths that fit in a corner!

While my mind is still whizzing round the prospect of the glorious new bathroom, may I just run a thought past the collective wisdom that is PPUK?

I'll have to get a chap in to deal with installing all the new stuff, so to keep costs down I've resigned myself to doing all the flooring and tiling. For me the worst part of tiling is cutting them to fit round pipes and the like, so I intend to do it all before the bath/shower/basin/loo are fitted. Is this feasible?

 

[Feltwell]

I'd say not. The plumber will need to access below the floor.

If you mean things like trying to avoid having to cut floor tiles to go round the bottom of the toilet pan (i.e. instead fitting the toilet pan on top of uncut tiles), what I have done once in the past is to get all my plumbing connections in place, then done the tiling, then fitted the pan. So you could speak to your plumber, get him in to do his prepatory work, then tile then get him back in to finish off.

But - for things like tiling round a soil pipe going through a wall, there's no way I'd want to try and put a new hole through an already tiled wall. The chances of breaking the tiles is just too high.

To be honest, now I just tile round everything. With a powered tile saw being so cheap, doing the rough work with that then finishing off a curve with a normal hand tile saw is pretty quick. The only exception was when I fitted some porcelain floor tiles - they were so hard, the only way to cut them was with a powered diamond table saw. Curves had to be achieved by doing lots of little cuts in with the table saw. It took forever!

 

[Penners]

I agree with Feltwell, Moo. If you tile first, plumb second, I'm afraid that you risk (a) making the plumber's task more difficult (hence more expensive), and (b) having to put up with the plumber's quality of tile drilling, plus a risk that he'll break some.

I always regard tiling as being pretty well the last job, when creating a new bathroom. And - again echoing Feltwell - it's thoroughly worthwhile spending £50 or £60 on a little powered tile saw. It can save you an awful lot of hassle with difficult and thin cuts. Something like this (although cheaper ones are available, if this will be your one and only use): http://www.diy.com/diy/jsp/bq/nav.jsp?action=detail&fh_secondid=10568063&fh_view_size=10&fh_start_index=20&fh_eds=%3f&fh_location=%2f%2fcatalog01%2fen_GB%2fcategories%3C{9372103}&fh_search=electric+tile+saw&fh_refview=search&isSearch=false

(If the picture frame is empty, click the zoom button).

But a manual cutter is still the quickest and most accurate method of making simple cuts: http://www.toppstiles.co.uk/tprod1153/section74/Flat-Bed-Tile-Cutter-33CM.html

When tiling around pipes, snap (don't saw in this case) the tile on the centre-line of the pipe, then scribe/nibble or grind out a semi-circle on each side of the break. If you fit the halves back together carefully around the pipe, you'll barely see the join.

 

[Feltwell]

Penners makes a very valid point, the manual cutters are the easiest, on wall tiles at least. Some floor tiles I find too tough to cut with them though, or too large to fit in the cutter. I like to have both manual and powered.

For powered cutters, one of these was given to me as a sample about 6 years ago, and at £43 it's a cheap one. It's been great, has had lots of use - use it with the water bath filled and you get a very clean cut indeed. I've even used it on glass tiles, although it does give a finely chipped edge on those so use with care.

http://www.screwfix.com/prods/40530.../Erbauer-ERB180C-Tile-Cutter-Chrome-Top-230V#

Use them outside, they do spit mucky water everywhere when in use! Wear goggles.

A final point - have you got a profile guage? They're only cheap and it makes transferring the shape of what you're trying to cut around onto the tile so much easier, a lot better than the old method of cutting "fingers" on a piece of card and faffing about bending them back to the right shape. If you want an additional check you can always transfer the shape onto a piece of card, cut that out and try it for fit before you cut the tile.

http://www.screwfix.com/prods/22527/Hand-Tools/Tiling-Tools/Forge-Steel-Profile-Gauge-5

 

[Moo]

Oh - you are a lovely bunch!

I'd assumed that, as I will be replacing like for like, the plumber would be able to use the existing holes but, of course, there's no guarantee that the waste pipe for the loo will be at the same height, and the wiring for the shower will have to be chased in, and so on....
So I'll take your advice and get the plumber in to do any drilling before I start tiling, in the hope that I'll be able to be get away with something a bit more approximate with the fiddly bits. I like the idea of slicing the tile(s) in half behind the loo outlet - that should make things much simpler.
I'm not sure about that powered tile-cutter, Penners, largely because I read the reviews and they weren't very confidence-inspiring - don't want to be beating a path back to B&Q to get replacements! But I'll definitely get one of those profile gauges (already got one of those manual cutters, Penners).
When I tiled son's kitchen floor we hired a powered cutter but I didn't use it. I just marked the tiles and gave them to son and his dad to cut outside in the garden. In this bathroom I don't think I'll be tiling the floor with anything more difficult than vinyl tiles (I've heard horror stories about floor tiles cracking when laid on a suspended timber floor) so I'll just buy some new blades for my stanley knife.
But unless someone can persuade me otherwise, I'm going to get that darned flooring down before the basin and loo get put in!

 

[MdB]

But unless someone can persuade me otherwise, I'm going to get that darned flooring down before the basin and loo get put in!

As long as none of your pipework goes under the floor obviously. If your plumber needs to take your floor back up to put in a pipe, I guess you won't be best pleased.

 

[Feltwell]

At only £40 or so to buy it's not worth hiring a powered cutter - you could sell it afterwards for at least £25! Like a lot of these tools, what was once only the domain of trade users and hire shops only has had cheap copies produced - inferior but good enough for light use. But if you're only doing wall tiles you'll get away without one anyway.

I don't see any reason why you couldn't put vinyl tiles down prior to the basin and loo going in (but after your plumber has had a look to see if he needs to get beneath the floor) - but if you're just going for vinyl flooring, why not get sheet vinyl and get a carpet fitter to put it down for you after the suite is in? It's not expensive, the cushion stuff feels quite nice underfoot and is warm and unlike vinyl tiles there are no joints for splashed water to get through, which is a consideration, especially if you decide to keep on renting it out. We've got it in our bathroom (young kids = need something practical & waterproof!). It doesn't look cheap & nasty any more like a lot of the old lino did, and you can always get a nice bath mat / rug to break up the look of it.

A decent fitter will cut it round the sink & loo with no problems. I can't remember what ours cost, but I'm sure it was less than £100 fitted for what is admittedly a small bathroom.

 

[MdB]

I would go for a single piece rather than tiles too. I've fitted a couple myself without problems. It is easy enough as long as you don't rush it and think twice before making any cut. Water splashes are then no issue at all.

 

[jocelyn plummer]

Gosh Moo, you are amazing---- glad you like Bathstore, I think they are pretty good too. Seem to have fairly good offers at times.
Send us a piccy when you have finished!

 

[Moo]

Thanks for the wise words about the flooring - one fewer decisions to be made, which is always good!
I think I'll lay it myself, though, so that the money saved will widen the range of aesthetic options.

Here's a picture of the bath I've chosen (it's the second one down on the right): http://www.bathstore.com/_application/bathstore/products/baths/showering-baths/


ps Is there any reason why I couldn't use vinyl tiles on the walls?

 

[Feltwell]

Very posh! It's one I hadn't seen before - food for thought for my bathroom when I eventually get round to doing it (our bathroom revamp will involve moving a wall )

Looking at the blurb for the bath alone, it's intended so that you use it as a bath with your head at the narrow end and your feet at the wider, shower end. I wonder if it's feasible, i.e. comfortable, to lay the other way round, depending on the end slope of the bath? My usual problem with baths (including our current one) is that my shoulders don't fit in the width of bath and I end up lying twisted to one side, which isn't that comfortable after a while.

I think I'll lay it myself, though, so that the money saved will widen the range of aesthetic options.

It will work out a bit cheaper but maybe not by much. We've found a "man with van" for carpets and vinyl flooring who is very cheap - he doesn't have any kind of showroom, just drops samples off at the house, so his overheads are lower than the shops. The difference between his fitted and unfitted price is usually only about £10 a room so I let him have the hassle and fit them, I hate fitting carpets!

Is there any reason why I couldn't use vinyl tiles on the walls?

Erm, yeah - it would look hideous. (you did ask!) I think it would look really cheap, you'd see any lumps and bumps in the wall straight through them and how would you seal between them? Grout wouldn't be an option.

Don't spoil the ship for a ha'p'orth of tar - use proper wall tiles! Vinyl tiles would look odd and put your buyers off I reckon.

I once saw a house where they had used cork tiles that had then been varnished - on the bathroom floor, bath panel, walls and ceiling! If the loo had been square they probably would have covered that as well.

 

[MdB]

Is there any reason why I couldn't use vinyl tiles on the walls?

Erm, yeah - it would look hideous. (you did ask!) I think it would look really cheap, you'd see any lumps and bumps in the wall straight through them and how would you seal between them? Grout wouldn't be an option.

Very hideous...

 

[Penners]

Is there any reason why I couldn't use vinyl tiles on the walls?

The aesthetic judgement must, of course, be yours, Moo. But technically I suspect that you could have difficulties. You certainly wouldn't be able to use them in a wet location - a shower for example. And I can't help feeling that they could prove unsatisfactory on a wall, where you don't have gravity and heavy feet "reinforcing" their adhesion on a regular basis. I don't think I'd risk it.

For what it's worth, I would always lay the floor before finally fitting the loo and the washbasin. Cutting any sort of floorcovering around those curved shapes is always an absolute b*gger.

When the plumber is locating all the pipework connections to those items, stand them temporarily in place with a piece of the intended floorcovering slipped underneath them. The few millimetres of floorcovering thickness might seem insignificant, but you'd be surprised how problematical it can sometimes be to have - for example - the cold water supply to the toilet emerging from the wall 3 or 4 mm too low. And you don't want to end up having to use one of those hideous flexible couplings.

 

[Moo]

Very hideous...

Okay, okay.... it was only a passing thought! Proper tiles it shall be.

I'll remember those wise words about the tile thickness, Penners. I'm even more determined to have the loo and basin sitting on, rather than in the flooring.

xxx M

 

[MatthewC]

Regarding Bathstore, they are actually a franchise so branches vary. We had a very good branch in London where we bought stuff for a new shower room which was admittedly a little pricey (although it was very nice!). The entire process was painless including the installation. However, we heard tales of bad branches there with high pressure salesmen (no pun intended) who use poor installers so you actually want recommendations for the branch you intend to use.

Matthew
http://houseintheenchantedforest.blogspot.com/

 

[Penners]

I used the Naarch branch, although I didn't have them do any installation - just bought the kit from them.

They were courteous, knew their product, gave useful advice and delivered on time.

If you're looking for the best possible prices for bathroom stuff, I've also bought from Victoria Plumb who I have found to be a bit cheaper on some things than Bath Store.

http://www.victoriaplumb.com/

However I have had some irritating quality issues with VP - things like a badly moulded washbasin waste hole that's difficult to get a seal on.

OK, yeah, yeah .....

:roll:

 

[Moo]

Wow - VP do the same bath as the one I've ordered from Bathstore at £199 including the screen.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Admittedly the screen doesn't have that extra panel across the width of the bath, but even so - I think I'll be cancelling my Bathstore order.
Thanks a million for that, Penners.

xxx M

 

[MdB]

I would check the quality of the screen. For some reason, decent screens are rather expensive and the naff ones are just that.