1870s Terrace with Damp (new home!)

[Baz]

Hi there
Long time lurker, 1st time poster etc....
Just in the process of purchasing a Victorian terraced 2 bed house. We've had the homebuyer's report back yesterday and as I suspected there's a mention of damp in there. It's on the inside of the north facing (rendered exterior) wall and around the unused chimney breast. I don't think the chimney has been capped.
The extent is such that it's interfered with the recently finished paint and made a slightly powdery residue up to a level of about 5 feet in large areas, but not the whole walls, nor a 'whole corner'. The surveyor recommends getting a damp & timber specialist to recitify it. There has been no mention of this affecting the price of the valuation so I don't *think* I can go back to the vendor and haggle (?).
I'm not sure I want to do anything about it just yet though - The property is vacant and has been for a couple of months. The only heating is night storage electic heaters and since the electricity supply is cut off, the place is rather chilly at the moment. Also the chimney hasn't been capped. So I'm thinking: we'll move in, get the cap on the chimney and see how we go without jumping in with the 'experts' straight away.
Just after some advice and words of wisdom on what to do really.
Cheers - Baz

 

[Penners]

Your hesitation is to be applauded. If you bring in the usual "free survey" damp specialist, the chances are you'll get a recommendation to inject a dpc, tank the walls - all kinds of very unfriendly stuff.

In your shoes, I would take it a step at a time. Firstly, get the place lived in and warm. Secondly, if the chimney isn't going to be used, get a ventilated cowl fitted. Thirdly, check all the usual suspects around the outside of the property - high soil/path levels, dodgy gutters, bad pointing, cracked rendering. Rectify any such problems.

Then give the damp some time to show what its inclinations are. You may well find that, given a warmed up house followed by spring and summer, the damp will start to disperse.

 

[Baz]

Thanks for that - seems like I'm thinking along the right lines...

The surveyor did also mention that the ground level on the outside of that exterior wall was the same height as the floor inside. However, the ground outside is the street and I can't see how I can effect anything to do with the exterior ground level....

Also - does the kind of finish used inside the house have a bearing on how the damp can disperse? For example, what kind of paint is breathable and how will I know if the plaster is lime or whatever?

 

[Penners]

Yes, the interior plastering and painting will certainly have an effect. If it's plastered in gypsum, then (no matter what the paint is) the damp won't be able dissipate - that's assuming that the exterior rendering is cement.

If you do find (after all the other things that I've mentioned above) that the damp is still bad, then you might consider hacking off the plaster from the inside of the wall, leaving the bare masonry to dry out for a few months, then replastering with lime. If you can't face doing this full height, you could at least do it up to the height of the damp. Once you've done this, then you must paint with a breathable paint like limewash.

Of course, hacking off exterior cement and re-rendering in lime would also be very beneficial, but it depends how far you're prepared to go with this.

 

[Penners]

The surveyor did also mention that the ground level on the outside of that exterior wall was the same height as the floor inside. However, the ground outside is the street and I can't see how I can effect anything to do with the exterior ground level....

Does the pavement or the road butt right up against the side of the house? Even if you only had a foot or two of your own land, this could still be enough room to dig a French drain of sorts, which would help the situation.

 

[Baz]

Yep, the pavement is right onto the front of the house... The surveyor suggested getting in touch with the local authority to seek permission to adjust the height but I can't see them letting anyone dig the road up like that. (Unless the whole street needed to be done...)

Just found out that our mortgage company want us to sort the damp as a condition of the loan. Within 3 months of moving in (!). However on closer inspection, it might be that we just have to get a damp specialist to look over the problem and give us a report. And if said report were to suggest 'install central heating and cap the chimney then live in the place' I'd be a happy bunny....

 

[Moo]

The surveyor suggested getting in touch with the local authority to seek permission to adjust the height but I can't see them letting anyone dig the road up like that.

It's still worth a try. I had a similar problem once, and the council sent someone round to adjust the levels. (Have you asked any of the neighbours whether they have damp, too?)

 

[Baz]

Update - just had a quote from a BWPDA approved company and the work comes to just over £4100.

They want to remove all the plaster inside and install a chemical damp proof course. They also recommend a cavity drain membrane to act as a damp proof barrier on the exterior wall. They call this 'Thermal dry' and it looks like silver plasterboard.

The 5 page report goes into very little detail about the actual damp, just describing it as 'rising dampness'.

I'd appreciate some thoughts?

 

[MdB]

I'd appreciate some thoughts?

Chuck report in bin and get somebody who know what they are talking about in?

 

[Baz]

You know I thought I'd get that kinda reply.... The thing that worries me is that they're BWPDA approved... I have a friend who was in a similar situation and recommended Rentokil?

I talked to the chap who did the damp survey and he seemed to give me the impression the damp issues would not affect the structure of the property at all, just the internal finishes and possibly our health (!) so I'm wondering whether I'll actually get the work done at all - Obviously there will be an issue come resale time, but it's a lot of money on top of the first house I'm buying.

 

[skier-hughes]

Get an independant expert in, there are a couple here. You'll pay for a survey instead of getting one for free, but it'll tell you what you need to do and not that you need them to do it :wink:

Try Matt Green.

 

[Baz]

I *did pay.

 

[Nemesis]

Ah yes - these companies are wise to this now. They used to be free but realised they could charge for the survey and get away with it.

Being a member of the BW whatsit is no guarantee that they aren't gonna give a you a load of duff advice and charge a fortune for work which is probably not going to remove the cause, just mask the symptoms for a while.

You may need something doing with the exterior wall, but I'd move in first (assuming that you don't now have mortgage retention problems) and see how it goes.

Once the place is heated I suspect the drastic plaster removal won't be required and nor will the injected DPC.

What a con all this is isn't it - 'rising damp'. Hmmmm.

 

[Penners]

Ah yes - these companies are wise to this now. They used to be free but realised they could charge for the survey and get away with it.

What a business to be in, eh? Not only can you charge for your services, but you can also charge the customer for the salesman to sell those services to him/her.

(*Thinks*. Why didn't I come up with that one?)

 

[NT]

I suspect many of the remedies discussed will prove to be moot. You only need do one step at a time, each step will reduce dampness. First step is get the heating on, the gradual exchnage of warm interior air with cold outside air will steadily carry dampness out of the property. 2nd thing is to check the usual stuff, keep ground level below floor where possible (ie not on the street side), clean out gutters and so on.

Its only if all this doesnt resolve it that you would need to do more. And given that the syptoms are mild, it wont take a lot to get rid of the entirely.

Its not something I'd lose any sleep over.


NT

 

[jess marley]

If the problem doesn't go away on living in for a while, I would absolutely ask the council, in the nicest possible way of course, to address the issue. They are, in law, your neighbour. And as such, have a responsibility not to damage your property, even if unwittingly.

 

[Baz]

Thanks for all the replies folks. All a bit of a waste though, as the vendors have just pulled out.

After following advice from our solicitors, we advised the vendor that there was £4000 worth of work to make it good, and they could either do the work or reduce the price.

Their response was "No, we're not doing the work or reducing the price. Furthermore we are now removing the property from sale and we intend to re-rent the property."

So I've spent £1000 on the surveys and searches and have nothing at all for it.

If anybody is interested, the vendor's surname is White, they're from Cannington in Somerset, and the property is in Union Street, Bridgwater, Somerset.

I'm not sure this forum would allow me to express my thoughts towards these 'people' at the moment.

 

[Nemesis]

Four grand sounds a lot - could you really justify that amount?

What were you intending to spend it one? Did you have firm quotes?

 

[Baz]

All I wanted was a bit of dialogue on the price, but they've cut all communications now. I was hoping we could agree a compromise, something like a couple thousand off. Our mortgage company wanted the damp sorted within 3 months of completion.

 

[Nemesis]

Would it have cost two grand?