Internal door quandary

[Athers1971]

Hi, after some quick feedback on internal doors.

We have a number of old, ill fitting doors. They are quite thin, and certainly not fire proof, and certainly don't fit in the hole!



Our architect has suggested to replace these with solid oak boarded cottage style doors that are FD30 rated (and appropriate surrounds).

There's not a fire door in this place but we have a young and growing family and so I understand why he is suggesting these.

I know it's a balance with a period property to retaining the historic features but also making it efficient and safe.

Should I sacrifice the doors?

 

[Feltwell]

That's a rather lovely old door. I'd keep it. Make sure you've got decent smoke alarms - you can get battery powered radio interlinked ones, it's what I've got, one goes off and they all go off and no wires to run across the whole house. They work in a daisy-chain pattern, so you can bounce the alarm signal as far as is required from one to the next.

Make sure you've got a decent escape route clear, a fire blanket available in the kitchen and personally I think that's enough for a house for fire safety.

if you've got drafts from those doors you could look at sensitively plugging up the gaps.

Once the character has gone it's tough to get it back.

 

[Cubist]

Safety must always trump aesthetics to my mind but, in the case of fire doors, their use should be based on whether they will significantly enhance the ability of people to exit the building in an emergency. Consequently I feel that their use and positioning should be based on an understanding of those routes and whether there is a real danger they may become inaccessible - to any occupant - in the event of a fire. Forgive the pun but in such cases the aesthetics should be put on the back burner.

 

[LadyArowana]

A fire door is all well and good if it’s closed, making sure it’s always closed means having an automatic closing mechanism of some kind, either over door or in frame. If you just use it like a regular door, as in it’s ajar or open quite often then you may as well keep the ones you have which are frankly rather nice. Make sure the kids know why a fire is very dangerous, and as already suggested fire blanket +

 

[malcolm]

A modern interconnected fire alarm system as Feltwell suggested is the first step. I was once woken up at 3am by the fire alarm. Assuming it was the normal spiders I got dressed, went downstairs and put out a fire in the kitchen caused by a cheap torch that had been left on charge. The spider fire drills had trained me to get dressed before going downstairs just in case an exit is required. Went back to bed leaving the ex to clear up the mess (her torch) and it was only then that the stand alone battery powered fire sensor in the corridor went off. Too late and I wouldn't have heard that from upstairs.

I went through some building regs on fire safety as part of a change of use. It's Doc B and worth a read for ideas. They insisted on fire egress from every room by making sure the lower part of windows open sufficiently for egress. They also insisted on fire doors to create a protected stairway that exits to the outside. My fire doors are never closed but I could close one to preserve an exit in the event of a fire. Over and above all that I have fire extinguishers on every floor and in the kitchen, utility and workshop.

Personally I would not replace a lovely old door with a fire door.

 

[88v8]

Our architect has suggested to replace these with solid oak boarded cottage style doors that are FD30 rated (and appropriate surrounds).
There's not a fire door in this place but we have a young and growing family and so I understand why he is suggesting these.
I know it's a balance with a period property to retaining the historic features but also making it efficient and safe.
Should I sacrifice the doors?

No. Your architect is just arse-covering.

That's a lovely and unusual door and it would be criminal to remove it.

Safety obsessives along with insulation obsessives are responsible for much degredation of historic interiors.

I have to disagree with the honourable Cubist member, imv if one is that concerned about safety then one should buy a concrete bungalow and wear a kilt so that one is not imperilled by the risks of descending stairs and the perils of putting on trousers.
For me, originality and aesthetics trump safety every time.

Do agree about fire alarms though.

Ivor

 

[Cubist]

I've just withdrawn my earlier claim to the 'GOG of the Week Award'.

 

[Old School]

I'd have been doing cartwheels if our house had had internal doors like that instead of the cheapest nastiest hollow press moulded internal doors which we inherited and had to replace, all 7 of them........not to mention the poly carbonate sheeting used as borrowed lights above each one!

 

[Cubist]

Setting aside the debate about fire doors and their appropriateness for Period Properties there is another issue of interest here. Many of us encounter poorly fitting doors in our homes and the first thought, it often seems, is to replace the doors themselves. There is though an alternative solution insofar that the door frame jambs can be modified or replaced to provide a much closer and snug fit. A few years back I did just that after a contest with our CO regarding my then proposals to replace our front door. Frustrated by the fruitless debate I finally removed the existing jambs from the frame and replaced them with new timber scribed and cut to fit the doors closure profile. I also took the opportunity too install a rubber draught seal around the perimeter. Oh, and aged the new timber while I was at it to blend in with the old door and frame.

 

[Gothichome]

What a beautiful door, it just reeks of age and every dent and scuff imparts a certain patina that can never be replaced. And really what is the need for a fire rated code compliant exit door, by the time you reached the door the situation would have already been accessed. In my view common sense living and working fire alarms would suffice.

Ron

 

[Athers1971]

Ok, I'm definitely convinced to keep them. Any ideas on what the marks on this one are or what may caused them?

 

[Cubist]

No way to be sure without talking to a real specialist but it could be the result of the softer and pulpy grain structure being eroded over time or being stripped out by a poorly sharpened/damaged blade.

Real left field idea though would be wasps - ever noticed how they gather wood fibres to construct their nests?

 

[Lacan07]

Ok, I'm definitely convinced to keep them. Any ideas on what the marks on this one are or what may caused them?

View attachment 10362

could be the nail marks of a child trying to get out

 

[Cubist]

could be the nail marks of a child trying to get out

Coo, that's a bit dark. But the idea is more apropos to such old and maybe gloomy homes.

 

[Toby Newell]

How did I miss this? I hope you didn't chuck them, most houses in the UK don't have fire doors. Most important are smoke alarms, fire extinguishers and a talk to your kids about escape routes.

Was your architect born yesterday? Good luck trying to get a good seal in those wonky openings! A carpenter would cry, with laughter probably. Seems like a ridiculous idea.

Wonderful pegged quarter grain oak, super lovely. Those marks? 100% not natural. No idea what they could be, never seen anything like it.

Maybe the door was used as a workbench for a cobbler at some point? You have to think outside the box. They appear to be in clumps and in lines, which indicates some sort of deliberate action over time, not random wear.

 

[Toby Newell]

Hi, after some quick feedback on internal doors.

We have a number of old, ill fitting doors. They are quite thin, and certainly not fire proof, and certainly don't fit in the hole!

View attachment 10272

Our architect has suggested to replace these with solid oak boarded cottage style doors that are FD30 rated (and appropriate surrounds).

There's not a fire door in this place but we have a young and growing family and so I understand why he is suggesting these.

I know it's a balance with a period property to retaining the historic features but also making it efficient and safe.

Should I sacrifice the doors?

Was he on a percetage retainer? Those doors are £1000+ excluding frames and fitting which would be near impossible.

 

[Athers1971]

How did I miss this? I hope you didn't chuck them, most houses in the UK don't have fire doors. Most important are smoke alarms, fire extinguishers and a talk to your kids about escape routes.

Was your architect born yesterday? Good luck trying to get a good seal in those wonky openings! A carpenter would cry, with laughter probably. Seems like a ridiculous idea.

Wonderful pegged quarter grain oak, super lovely. Those marks? 100% not natural. No idea what they could be, never seen anything like it.

Maybe the door was used as a workbench for a cobbler at some point? You have to think outside the box. They appear to be in clumps and in lines, which indicates some sort of deliberate action over time, not random wear.

No idea! With the passing of time and living in this old place my attitude is definitley now retain and restore/conserve what ever I can. So the doors are staying!

Would love to be able to age them.

 

[Toby Newell]

I can do that,looking at your avatar photo, they are period. What age is your house?

 

[Toby Newell]

Early 1700s?

 

[Athers1971]

I can do that,looking at your avatar photo, they are period. What age is your house?

No definite date, but we suspect the early part of the 17th century. We had to have an Archaeological Building Record completed, so when I get that in a couple of weeks I may know a bit more.