Stove & Lime

Hello all.

My cellar --- or is it a basement? (I never know, but it seems to have been used for more than just storing food/wine.) --- is a trifle damp. (Hygrometer readings show a relative humidity of around 95%.) As ventilation would be rather awkward to introduce through the walls, I've hit upon the wheeze of opening up the flue in the smaller of the two fireplaces, and getting a wood-burning stove going down there, effectively using it as it would have been used originally. The HETAS chap looked it all over and said that provided the stove was rated around 5kW and no more, the existing ventilation would suffice --- the stove should draw air through the room from beneath the cellar door (which can always be left ajar, should more airflow be needed), sucking the damp air up the chimney and gradually drying out the walls. The thermal mass of the walls will also provide a great heat store to help warm the house, which was pretty chilly this winter and difficult to keep comfortable for long with just gas central heating.

It seems that the cellar's been damp for some years, and so the walls need attention: the pointing is crumbling away, and the lime wash is flaking off (there are filamentous growths on the surface in places --- I'd guess they're probably fungal hyphae, rather than plant roots). I plan therefore to scrub all of this off and clean the walls back to the stone, rake out the mortar joints, re-point them in lime, and then apply a fresh coat of lime wash. There is also lath and plaster on the ceiling which needs redoing.

And so to my question...

Is it better to put in the stove first and dry the cellar out before cleaning it down and doing the lime work, or is it better to do the cleaning and lime work while the cellar is still damp and then install the stove to dry it out? I remember reading somewhere that new lime work must not be dried out too rapidly.

Has anyone here had issues along these lines (i.e. a stove creating problems with new lime work)? Any input is much appreciated!

Thanks,

HH

Two things come to mind.

Firstly, you’ll need a good supply of wood and also be prepared to refill the stove every 45 mins or so if you want it to generate enough heat to make the exercise worthwhile.

Secondly, as the surface of the buried walls begin to dry out inside the cellar they’ll just draw in more moisture from the ground surrounding them, so you’ll effectively be trying to dry out the ground moisture. Good luck with that :wink:

That’s not to say it’s not a good idea to try to reduce the RH in the cellar. Our cellar used to drip condensation from the floor joists above, which is clearly not ideal. My solution was to use a dehumidifier in the warmer months, generally April through to September. I’d bet it’s a cheaper alternative to a wood burner, unless you have an ample supply of free wood, and it’s also maintenance-free - just switch it on and let it do its stuff. If there is no suitable drain for all the collected water (not uncommon in cellars), use a ‘condensate pump’. This will collect the water and when it’s reservoir is full (about a pint or so) it will pump the water wherever you want. In my case, up about 2m and out through a ventilation grille and into a 20 litre container, which then becomes a ready supply of deionised water.

Flyfisher said:

...Firstly, you’ll need a good supply of wood and also be prepared to refill the stove every 45 mins or so if you want it to generate enough heat to make the exercise worthwhile.

Secondly, as the surface of the buried walls begin to dry out inside the cellar they’ll just draw in more moisture from the ground surrounding them, so you’ll effectively be trying to dry out the ground moisture. Good luck with that :wink:

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I'll second both those comments. I know of a local church where they have tried to warm the place up by throwing money to their utility supplier but it makes no lastng difference at all. I have tried to tell them that the first job they need to do is to install a French drain in order to dry the walls but they still seem to think that they can succeed their way!

Clearly, however, a cellar is a different proposition and I can't guess how I would address it myself. I think I would possibly check first to see if there is surface water (concrete up to the wall? Driveway sloping towards the house?) or a broken/blocked drain/downpipe etc which is actively supplying more than "normal" ground water.

Another local church here has a boiler room which is underground; it has a sump pump but always seemed really wet. I found that the pump sent water up to ground level and it then came straight back down into the boiler room again instead of going into a drain!

Thanks for the comments.

Flyfisher said:

you’ll need a good supply of wood and also be prepared to refill the stove every 45 mins or so if you want it to generate enough heat to make the exercise worthwhile.

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How did you arrive at this figure? The cellar (or at least the damp part of it) is not a huge space --- it's about twelve foot on a side. Also, it's not freezing down there (in fact in winter, it's often noticeably warmer than the ground floor!): there are no pools of water or anything. Honestly, I'd be very surprised if I one had to fill the stove every 45 minutes throughout the day simply to keep the place comfortably dry.

MatthewC said:

I know of a local church where they have tried to warm the place up by throwing money to their utility supplier but it makes no lastng difference at all. I have tried to tell them that the first job they need to do is to install a French drain in order to dry the walls but they still seem to think that they can succeed their way!

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I would not be able to put in a French drain, as I do not own any of the ground beyond the wall. And as I say, it's a small place --- much easier to heat than a church!

Clearly, however, a cellar is a different proposition and I can't guess how I would address it myself. I think I would possibly check first to see if there is surface water (concrete up to the wall? Driveway sloping towards the house?) or a broken/blocked drain/downpipe etc which is actively supplying more than "normal" ground water.

Click to expand...

I checked for all these things when I was trying to get to the source of the problem, as far as I can tell, the moisture seems to be pushed outwards into the walls by a large concrete pad on the floor with an impermeable membrane beneath it. My plan is to remove this and thus cut off the water supply into the walls, and allow the floor to breathe again. The moisture which comes through the exposed floor can then be dealt with by the stove.

You will need to allow the lime to dry completely before you can have the extra heat of the stove - one week per cm I believe.

Househunter said:

Flyfisher said:

you’ll need a good supply of wood and also be prepared to refill the stove every 45 mins or so if you want it to generate enough heat to make the exercise worthwhile.

Click to expand...

How did you arrive at this figure? The cellar (or at least the damp part of it) is not a huge space --- it's about twelve foot on a side. Also, it's not freezing down there (in fact in winter, it's often noticeably warmer than the ground floor!): there are no pools of water or anything. Honestly, I'd be very surprised if I one had to fill the stove every 45 minutes throughout the day simply to keep the place comfortably dry.

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Experience. We have three stoves in different sized room; 5kW, 7kW and 11kW (plus a back boiler). They all seem to need refuelling every 45-60 mins or so in order to maintain a constant temperature. They can be closed down and 'slumbered' but this is not good practice with stoves. The smaller stove obviously burns less wood than the largest one, but the refuelling rate is remarkably similar. A less-green alternative is to burn coal, which lasts much longer and therefore requires less regular refilling. I confess that I tend to do this if we have lots of people in the house, e.g. Christmas, and I don't want to spend lots of time tending the stoves!

Househunter said:

I checked for all these things when I was trying to get to the source of the problem, as far as I can tell, the moisture seems to be pushed outwards into the walls by a large concrete pad on the floor with an impermeable membrane beneath it. My plan is to remove this and thus cut off the water supply into the walls, and allow the floor to breathe again. The moisture which comes through the exposed floor can then be dealt with by the stove.

Click to expand...

The concrete pad won't be helping things but a cellar is basically a brick room buried in the ground, so unless it has been totally 'tanked' to prevent moisture from the surrounding ground seeping in then it's effectively impossible to cut off the supply of moisture. A stove may help control the resulting humidity but so would a dehumidifier - probably at less cost and certainly with less effort.

Our C17 cottage has a native RH of about 75%. In winter, the two woodburners and the storage heaters bring it down to around 45% at best. Then in the summer, up it goes again.

Do you want to be running a stove all summer? And letting it go out when you go out and then having to relight it? And lugging a tonnage of wood in, and have you suitable dry, airy, storage for say, a ton of wood anyway?

Opening up the flue is a good idea, but by the time you've paid for a stove and had the flue lined, you could have bought a dehumidifier and run it for ten years, with no botheration beyond emptying the tank every couple of days. [cue FF to point out that a condensate pump can obviate the emptying].

We have two Ebac 2650 - one in the sitting room, one in the cellar, and that is what I would recommend. If run on Auto, they will eventually pull your RH down to about 75% which is still pretty damp, but tolerable.

Pointing, yes, damp is helpful, although it will take months to go off. But lime wash on a damp wall, noooo, it will just come off again.

We keep wine in our dampish cellar, jam, chutneys, the freezer lives down there. In winter, a storage heater keeps the chill off.
It is what it is, a useful but damp stone box.

As to the coolness of your house, we heat to about 62F. Some would deem that 'cool'. It all depends.

Ivor

I would agree with others regarding the feed rates of a wood burner. Stoves are nice to have as a focal point in a room (as well as a source of heat), but they do need constant attention. What might work in a cellar/basement is a pellet or wood chip stove providing heating & hot water for the entire house. Installation would be expensive and is only really viable if you have no other source of heat such as gas or oil.

Thanks for the further comments.

TheSpid said:

You will need to allow the lime to dry completely before you can have the extra heat of the stove - one week per cm I believe.

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I had a feeling that this would probably be the case.

Flyfisher said:

Experience. We have three stoves in different sized room; 5kW, 7kW and 11kW (plus a back boiler). They all seem to need refuelling every 45-60 mins or so in order to maintain a constant temperature. They can be closed down and 'slumbered' but this is not good practice with stoves. The smaller stove obviously burns less wood than the largest one, but the refuelling rate is remarkably similar. A less-green alternative is to burn coal, which lasts much longer and therefore requires less regular refilling. I confess that I tend to do this if we have lots of people in the house, e.g. Christmas, and I don't want to spend lots of time tending the stoves!

Click to expand...

Ah, thanks: that sounds sensible. I was planning on getting a multi-fuel stove, anyway, so that I could use both.

The concrete pad won't be helping things but a cellar is basically a brick room buried in the ground, so unless it has been totally 'tanked' to prevent moisture from the surrounding ground seeping in then it's effectively impossible to cut off the supply of moisture. A stove may help control the resulting humidity but so would a dehumidifier - probably at less cost and certainly with less effort.

Click to expand...

I should perhaps have made more in my original post of the fact that the stove isn't purely for dehumidifying the cellar and that I would like to have an alternative heat source besides gas and electricity (hence my remark about storing heat in the walls of the house). Moreover, I hope to use the cellar/basement in future as a recreation room. Were it simply a case of dealing with a moisture problem, then yes, you're right, I'd just put a dehumidifier down there.

88v8 said:

Our C17 cottage has a native RH of about 75%. In winter, the two woodburners and the storage heaters bring it down to around 45% at best. Then in the summer, up it goes again.

Do you want to be running a stove all summer?

Click to expand...

I did think about that, and concluded that when the weather is warm I'd probably just use a dehumidifier, so the stove would be in use mainly from autumn to spring when the house needed heating. ...Although it's been jolly cold here the past couple of days, so maybe even in summer it'd see some use!

88v8 said:

And letting it go out when you go out and then having to relight it? And lugging a tonnage of wood in, and have you suitable dry, airy, storage for say, a ton of wood anyway?

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Yes, these are good points. I agree with Flyfisher's comment that coal would be a much easier option than wood.

88v8 said:

Pointing, yes, damp is helpful, although it will take months to go off. But lime wash on a damp wall, noooo, it will just come off again.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the info: I'll dry out the walls, then, and just damp down the joints before doing the pointing.

paulc said:

I would agree with others regarding the feed rates of a wood burner. Stoves are nice to have as a focal point in a room (as well as a source of heat), but they do need constant attention. What might work in a cellar/basement is a pellet or wood chip stove providing heating & hot water for the entire house. Installation would be expensive and is only really viable if you have no other source of heat such as gas or oil.

Click to expand...

Yes, that'd be a bit too much of an outlay! I just want something to make the room pleasant to use and warm the house up a bit, really.

My Next door neighbour runs 4 radiators off his wood burning stove

Househunter said:

I was planning on getting a multi-fuel stove...

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In which case the flue will need a 316 liner, as smokeless fuel is too aggressive for the (cheaper) 304.

And spend a tenner on a flue thermometer, otherwise there is no way of knowing how hot the stove is running.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/ATuniby-Magnetic-Thermometer-Temperature-Fireplace/dp/B07MHCT91B/ref=sr_1_16?keywords=flue+thermometer&qid=1559895262&s=gateway&sr=8-16
They go on the stove pipe, about a foot above the stove.

Also, as it's in the cellar where air movement is important, I'd pop one of these peltier-powered fans on top of the stove for a 'free' supply of hot moving air.
https://www.caframolifestylesolutions.com/ecofan/
Cheap Chinese ripoffs are available.

Recreation room... PO had an exercise bike down there. He had the walls lined with that plastic mesh standoff stuff and special plaster with a gap at the bottom, the walls are dry, but by design the moisture runs down behind the lining and so the air is still damp.
There is no door to the cellar, and its staircase rises direct into the kitchen. One would therefore think that the RH would harmonise, but down there is it markedly damper.

The stone walls as a heat store.....?... living as we do in a stone cottage I have to say that unless externally insulated, stone walls are a heat sink. Not a store.

Still, a stove is a lovesome thing, god wot.

Ivor

88v8 said:

Househunter said:

I was planning on getting a multi-fuel stove...

Click to expand...

In which case the flue will need a 316 liner, as smokeless fuel is too aggressive for the (cheaper) 304.

Click to expand...

Thanks --- I'll make sure they use the former, if it does all go ahead.

And spend a tenner on a flue thermometer, otherwise there is no way of knowing how hot the stove is running.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/ATuniby-Magnetic-Thermometer-Temperature-Fireplace/dp/B07MHCT91B/ref=sr_1_16?keywords=flue+thermometer&qid=1559895262&s=gateway&sr=8-16
They go on the stove pipe, about a foot above the stove.

Click to expand...

Very reasonable price, that: £2.50 including delivery!

Also, as it's in the cellar where air movement is important, I'd pop one of these peltier-powered fans on top of the stove for a 'free' supply of hot moving air.
https://www.caframolifestylesolutions.com/ecofan/
Cheap Chinese ripoffs are available.

Click to expand...

Yes, that's an excellent idea. I'll put one of those on the shopping-list, too.

Recreation room... PO had an exercise bike down there. He had the walls lined with that plastic mesh standoff stuff and special plaster with a gap at the bottom, the walls are dry, but by design the moisture runs down behind the lining and so the air is still damp.
There is no door to the cellar, and its staircase rises direct into the kitchen. One would therefore think that the RH would harmonise, but down there is it markedly damper.

Click to expand...

I've noticed that myself, with mine: I can leave the cellar door wide open, but as you've found, the relative humidity doesn't harmonise with that on the ground floor.

The stove should kill two birds with one stone, though; sucking the damp air up the chimney, pulling in fresh air from the ground floor, and warming the cellar up so I can use it.

The stone walls as a heat store.....?... living as we do in a stone cottage I have to say that unless externally insulated, stone walls are a heat sink. Not a store.

Click to expand...

I was thinking simply of making use of the wall's thermal mass: as you say, there will be heat losses, but with the existing system here (gas-fired central heating), the house itself never really warms up --- the air in the room heats up, but the walls always remain cold, and therefore cool the air down quite rapidly. Warming the walls a bit would make the place more comfortable.

Also, a lot of the heat from the stove would escape upwards, which means that if it is put in the cellar, it will provide underfloor heating for the rather chilly ground floor.

Still, a stove is a lovesome thing, god wot.

Click to expand...

Yes --- I confess that there is probably an element of heart ruling head here. I've long fancied a stove...

One potential snag I thought of is that putting a stove in the cellar and using it as a recreation room might constitute a change of use --- which would no doubt mean opening a can of Building Regulation worms. But I guess if they insisted on a secondary means of escape (or more ventilation or natural light), then I could unblock the coal chute (currently sealed up with modern block work) and put some kind of secured emergency-escape-window-thing there. Not sure what I'd do about the concrete cover outside on the pavement, though...

Anyway, thanks for the info and the tips, Ivor --- much appreciated!

Househunter said:

Also, a lot of the heat from the stove would escape upwards, which means that if it is put in the cellar, it will provide underfloor heating for the rather chilly ground floor.

Click to expand...

Some of the heat will go up the flue and heat the chimney as it passes up through the house. When I have the stove going in the drawing room, the chimney breast in the bedroom above gets nice and warm. The thermal mass of the brickwork keeps the bedroom at a comfortable temperature over the course of the night even after the fire has gone out.

As for a flue liner, I believe 316 is only recommended for wood, whilst 904 is better suited to wood/coal.

I’d guess that a cellar’s RH would not readily harmonise with a room above because the cellar’s temperature is likely to be colder, so the air would not rise.

A stove would certainly help with the cellar ventilation and if the intention is to use the cellar as some sort of room then it might be more practical than I first thought - but don’t underestimate the amount of collateral effort involved in fuelling the stove.

As for the cellar walls as a heat store, the problem with this is their intimate thermal contact with the surrounding ground, which would also act as a thermal store so imagine how much heat would be required to raise the temperature of all that mass. It would be like a sort of reverse ground source heat pump, though instead of extracting useful heat while only lowering the ground temperature a tiny amount (due to its large thermal mass) you would be ‘injecting’ a large amount of heat but only raising the wall/ground temperature by a tiny amount.

I think Ivor has summed up a cellar perfectly - a useful but damp stone box. Trying to change those characteristics is fraught with all manner of problems, most of which have probably been discussed here over the years.

paulc said:

Househunter said:

Also, a lot of the heat from the stove would escape upwards, which means that if it is put in the cellar, it will provide underfloor heating for the rather chilly ground floor.

Click to expand...

Some of the heat will go up the flue and heat the chimney as it passes up through the house. When I have the stove going in the drawing room, the chimney breast in the bedroom above gets nice and warm. The thermal mass of the brickwork keeps the bedroom at a comfortable temperature over the course of the night even after the fire has gone out.

Click to expand...

Perfect! That's exactly what I was hoping: the flue runs up through the wall right behind my bed --- the wall was cold all through winter (neither central heating nor electric fan heaters could warm it up), and even slightly damp to the touch at times. Taking the chill off that would make for a much more comfortable bedroom.

...Thank you for the good tidings!

As for a flue liner, I believe 316 is only recommended for wood, whilst 904 is better suited to wood/coal.

Click to expand...

Yes, you're quite correct: I've just read that on my HETAS engineer/installer's website...

"If stoves are burning for long periods at a low temperature (slumbering), it is highly recommended to use 904 grade liner, which is more resistant to corrosion. ...904 grade liner can also be used when burning wood, but it is designed for the higher temperatures of smokeless fuels."

Flyfisher said:

I’d guess that a cellar’s RH would not readily harmonise with a room above because the cellar’s temperature is likely to be colder, so the air would not rise.

Click to expand...

That was what I'd concluded, too --- the fresh air needs to be dragged down into the cellar, which the stove would do.

A stove would certainly help with the cellar ventilation and if the intention is to use the cellar as some sort of room then it might be more practical than I first thought - but don’t underestimate the amount of collateral effort involved in fuelling the stove.

Click to expand...

Yes, I think your idea of using coal is the way I'd go.

As for the cellar walls as a heat store, the problem with this is their intimate thermal contact with the surrounding ground, which would also act as a thermal store so imagine how much heat would be required to raise the temperature of all that mass. It would be like a sort of reverse ground source heat pump, though instead of extracting useful heat while only lowering the ground temperature a tiny amount (due to its large thermal mass) you would be ‘injecting’ a large amount of heat but only raising the wall/ground temperature by a tiny amount.

Click to expand...

You're probably right, but the flue itself would --- as PaulC has discovered --- store heat in the brickwork above the cellar.

I think Ivor has summed up a cellar perfectly - a useful but damp stone box. Trying to change those characteristics is fraught with all manner of problems, most of which have probably been discussed here over the years.

Click to expand...

I did search the posts here, but didn't come across any asking about installing a stove in the cellar ("With good reason!" I hear you say!). I've also spoken with various knowledgeable people, both conservation professionals (including the folk at SPAB) and the HETAS engineer, and all of them spoke positively about the idea.

...And the fact that the original house was designed with a fireplace in the cellar (indeed two!) suggests to me that it might be worth a go.

Anyway, thanks for the reply: I appreciate your comments.

...And by jingo, if I had a stove here, I'd be using it right now --- first week in June and it's blooming freezing!

Househunter said:

...And by jingo, if I had a stove here, I'd be using it right now --- first week in June and it's blooming freezing!

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We are still using ours regularly, with only a week to go to mid-summer! High of 9C here today!

worms said:

Househunter said:

...And by jingo, if I had a stove here, I'd be using it right now --- first week in June and it's blooming freezing!

Click to expand...

We are still using ours regularly, with only a week to go to mid-summer! High of 9C here today!

Click to expand...

It's crazy, isn't it?! I keep putting the central heating on!

Worms, on my trawls through PPUK, I discovered (here) that many moons ago, you bought a dessicant dehumidifier.

As an alternative to the plan with the stove, I did consider trying one of those in the cellar myself. As I understand it, they are the ones best suited to colder spaces, since compressor-types ice over below about 10°C and thus spend much of their time defrosting themselves.

From your post, it sounds as though you used it in a colder room: did it do the trick? ...And was it expensive to run?

I went through similar thoughts when choosing a dehumidifier for our cellar and you’re right about the compressor-type dehumidifiers not working in very cold conditions, unlike desiccant-types. However, another consideration is that cold air can carry far less moisture than warm air so it may not be necessary to reduce the RH during the colder months.

In my case, the problem I was trying to solve in our cellar was condensation on the joists supporting the floor above, but this was only a noticeable problem during the warmer months, which I assumed was mainly the result of moisture-laden warm air entering the cool cellar and condensing. Therefore I chose a compressor-type dehumidifier because I only need to run it in the warmer months. I typically switch it on in April and off in October and there is no longer any sign of condensation all year round.

I’m not suggesting this is the best solution in every case, just describing one that seems to have been successful over a number of years. However, we have no intention of trying to convert our cellar into a habitable room, for which I’m sure different criteria will apply, leading perhaps to a different solution.

Flyfisher said:

I went through similar thoughts when choosing a dehumidifier for our cellar and you’re right about the compressor-type dehumidifiers not working in very cold conditions, unlike desiccant-types.

In my case, the problem I was trying to solve in our cellar was condensation on the joists supporting the floor above, but this was only a noticeable problem during the warmer months, which I assumed was mainly the result of moisture-laden warm air entering the cool cellar and condensing. Therefore I chose a compressor-type dehumidifier because I only need to run it in the warmer months. I typically switch it on in April and off in October and there is no longer any sign of condensation all year round.

Click to expand...

That makes sense --- horses for courses, as you say. What model was yours, and what (roughly) does it cost per year to run?

In my case, the temperature in the cellar got down to a low of around 5°C during the winter (if I remember correctly). It's now 13°C --- so presumably a desiccant-type would be better suited to that sort of range. I've also read that they generate a moderate heat in operation, which might help make the cellar a little more pleasant to use.

I’m not suggesting this is the best solution in every case, just describing one that seems to have been successful over a number of years. However, we have no intention of trying to convert our cellar into a habitable room, for which I’m sure different criteria will apply, leading perhaps to a different solution.

Click to expand...

Yes, I've still got a lot of thinking to do about all this: I haven't made a final decision about putting a stove in the cellar, yet. I trawl PPUK quite a bit, looking to see who has done what over the years, and I actually found, buried in a post from years ago, a reply from someone ("JoceAndChris") who mentioned in passing that they had a stove in their cellar. I sent them a PM, but unfortunately have had no reply (although I notice that they haven't visited the site since January).

I also came across this video, and in the comments below it, the conservation specialist who posted the video effectively stated that dehumidifiers are not a solution. That said, his solution sounded very expensive, and so I thought it might be worth spending a couple of hundred quid on a dehumidifier and giving it a try (I can always sell it afterwards), before spending thousands on something more permanent.

Anyway, thanks for your reply, FF, and have a good weekend.

Househunter said:

worms said:

Househunter said:

...And by jingo, if I had a stove here, I'd be using it right now --- first week in June and it's blooming freezing!

Click to expand...

We are still using ours regularly, with only a week to go to mid-summer! High of 9C here today!

Click to expand...

It's crazy, isn't it?! I keep putting the central heating on!

Worms, on my trawls through PPUK, I discovered (here) that many moons ago, you bought a dessicant dehumidifier.

As an alternative to the plan with the stove, I did consider trying one of those in the cellar myself. As I understand it, they are the ones best suited to colder spaces, since compressor-types ice over below about 10°C and thus spend much of their time defrosting themselves.

From your post, it sounds as though you used it in a colder room: did it do the trick? ...And was it expensive to run?

Click to expand...

Wow, that’s a while ago!

Not so much used in a colder room, as used in a colder house! I did find it good, especially useful for helping laundry dry in winter and keeping the bathroom walls from getting too damp. I can’t remember it being expensive to run (I’m a cheapskate, so I would have noticed!). I avoided using the more expensive settings.

However, I insulated the exterior wall of the bathroom and three kids flew the nest, with the effect that the house wasn’t producing quite so much excess moisture. The dehumidifier was consigned to the assortment of useful items in the garage. When I tried to use it again a couple of years ago, it seemed to run, but didn’t actually produce much water. I took it apart and cleaned the dessicant wheel, but that made no difference. I suspect it needs a new wheel, but I couldn’t easily find the replacement parts online and returned the dehumidifier to the garage.

If I was buying another one, I think i’d still go for the desiccant type, although I suspect that a refrigerant one would be just as good and perhaps longer-lasting.

As FF says the summer months are often the worst - the heating is off, the wood-burner is off and the outside RH can be really high, especially if the weather is unremitting ****** rain!