Time for another piece of tree

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agbagb
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Time for another piece of tree

Post by agbagb » Tue 17th Jul, 2012 10:22 pm

I've found out why the bathroom floor had been built up with chipboard.
Image

It looks like the side of the house has dropped about 1" at some time and the wall has bowed away from the original floor boards.
Image

Leaving just one beam 150 x150mm x 5m suporting the floor.
Image

Hardly surprising, it's bent quite a bit especialy as the cast iron bath was right in middle of it.

I'm planning on an additional beam to go against the wall. Maybe 300 x 120mm ish to take all the weight off the old beam. The existing beams are all pine but I'm thinking of using larch (I've got some that need felling) unless someone talks me out of it in which case it'll be scots pine.

Any thoughts?

jocelyn plummer
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Re: Time for another piece of tree

Post by jocelyn plummer » Wed 18th Jul, 2012 8:55 am

:shock: well discovered!!!

Zebra
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Re: Time for another piece of tree

Post by Zebra » Thu 19th Jul, 2012 9:49 pm

Erm, ooh, erm. Those pictures are a bit hard to fathom. So the bathroom is above that beam? Where's the second picture taken from? You're thinking of putting a new beam where?

robgil
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Re: Time for another piece of tree

Post by robgil » Sat 21st Jul, 2012 3:59 pm

Sometimes it is possible to add strength to a beam by inserting a steel 'T' shaped angle iron into it from above. A cast iron bath full of water and people though will be quite heavy.
What kind of flooring do you intend to put in there?

Penners
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Re: Time for another piece of tree

Post by Penners » Sat 21st Jul, 2012 5:53 pm

robgil wrote:A cast iron bath full of water and people will be quite heavy.
Maybe it's best to limit the bath occupancy to just one person. :oops:

I presume that king joist is not the only thing supporting the bathroom floorboards? Are there common joists as well? If so, then you might wish to consider inserting a couple more substantial king joists underneath the common joists, as extra support. So the ceiling downstairs will be split into four bays instead of two.

I would also be inclined to move the bath to a position against, or close to, the wall.

robgil
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Re: Time for another piece of tree

Post by robgil » Sat 21st Jul, 2012 6:43 pm

You can never have enough peoples in a bath.
How is the beam fixed to the wall? My cottage has spreading walls and there have been small braces added here and there to keep things together. By the looks of the pictures any spread will seperate the spine beam from the wall plate/studs on either end, any sagging occuring in the other joists shouldnt really be a problem providing they have not come away from the main beam, if so they could be strapped from above or brackets used from below to hold them to the spine beam.
Either way you might be fixing something that isnt really broken but you wont know for sure without further investigation.

Edit - I shall try and load some photos over the week end to help explain what I mean.

jocelyn plummer
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Re: Time for another piece of tree

Post by jocelyn plummer » Sat 21st Jul, 2012 9:43 pm

robgil wrote:My cottage has spreading walls
robgil wrote:You can never have enough peoples in a bath.
Not surprising :!: :!:

Penners
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Re: Time for another piece of tree

Post by Penners » Sun 22nd Jul, 2012 6:25 pm

Well spotted, Joss. A clear cause-and-effect diagnosis!

agbagb
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Re: Time for another piece of tree

Post by agbagb » Mon 23rd Jul, 2012 4:58 pm

I think sharing the bath water is the way we'll go ( under 5's splashtimes excluded).

Picture explanation (appologies for the confusion):

picture 1. Bathroom taken with my back to the dividing wall looking east, collar of cruck on the right 12" above floor level. Under my bum is the beam shown in pic 3.

picture 2 From the other side of the dividing wall (blue) looking east. Showing under the collar past the wall through in to the bathroom. Shows how the floor is not conected to the bowed wall under the collar at all.

picture 3 Looking west in the passage way under the floor in question. String showing deflection of the beam.

So one beam, 5m long parellel (ish) to the cruck goes in to the stone work at the side of the gate and the wall at the other end of the passage. IT is just the single beam/joist that suports the middle of the floor. One side is over the other wall that makes the passage way, so that side is fine. The other side of the floor is in mid air, canterlevered of the beam/joist in the middle.

I'm thinking of adding an extra beam close to the bowed wall seen on the right of picture 3 and left of picture 2. This would then support the canterlevered side of the foor. I don't want to add any load to the bowed wall as it's having a hard time supporing its self. I could prop the new beam or build a column half way along the floor in the passage but I'm resisting adding more structural elements than I have to.

With the new beam in place I'll add "hidden" common joists across to the good wall at the other side of the passage (1200mm ish). One of these would be the bottom of a rebuilt diving wall. The others under floor level and jointed to the old beam.


I've now lifted the 12" floor boards shown in pic one, what's left of the original boards run across the passage. I've saved the later boards for reuse so they might end up being the finished flooring.


Hope I've addressed everything. And Thanks, your input really helps me think through the various options

agbagb
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Re: Time for another piece of tree

Post by agbagb » Mon 23rd Jul, 2012 9:16 pm

The floor under the floor under the floor
Image

Under this is the single beam /joist , infilled with lathe and plaster then down to passage way.

Penners
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Re: Time for another piece of tree

Post by Penners » Tue 24th Jul, 2012 12:19 pm

agbagb wrote:I'm resisting adding more structural elements than I have to.
Well, in itself that's fair enough. But if an extra structural element or two will add to the strength of the building without placing any extra load on the existing structure, or getting in the way of anything, I would tend to err on the side of over- rather than under-engineering.

agbagb
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Re: Time for another piece of tree

Post by agbagb » Tue 24th Jul, 2012 2:55 pm

I might be swaying towards having a column /post in the passage and a smaller section joist. We've been working through the bathroom layout and so far the ideal place for bath is at the weakest point of floor. A post would be right under it so no worrys about the weight of the cast iron bath with or with multiple occupancy. We'll be up there for the rest of week so I'll get the other half's input.

jocelyn plummer
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Re: Time for another piece of tree

Post by jocelyn plummer » Fri 27th Jul, 2012 10:54 pm

Enjoyed our brief, three way chat this evening--- hope the floor is now getting sorted to your liking!!

agbagb
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Re: Time for another piece of tree

Post by agbagb » Mon 30th Jul, 2012 9:40 pm

Yes a flying visit from Alan on his way to the B and B. He sounds chuffed to bits.

I think we'll end up with an extra beam and a post, belt and braces and all that. All in larch.

The floor now has an extra foot shaped hole. After telling everyone not to step off the chipboard I'd laid to get the toilet and sink, guess who forgot!

jocelyn plummer
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Re: Time for another piece of tree

Post by jocelyn plummer » Mon 30th Jul, 2012 10:43 pm

Oh dear, hope you did not hurt yourself too much!!

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