Yet Another Damp Basement.

[Staggers]

Hello
First but hopefully not last post. Just purchased a mid to late 19th centuary commercial building, which we believe was built as Solicitors offices, (complete with walk in safe in the basement). Vendor applied for and got Planing Permission to convert to a Private Dwelling but we are reapplying with alterations as the layout did not suit our needs. We are getting on well with our Building Regulations Officer and have spent a couple of weeks knocking off all the wall plaster, the ceiling and removing the parquet floor in the damp basement which is to be our kitchen, with the intention of waterproofing with a sheet plastic membrane, then insulating and possibly finishing with original tongue and groove boards saved from demolished partitions. There is a pavement immediately outside the front wall at about 5ft high, a party wall to the left and rear, and to the right and built against our wall a set of pedestrian steps from pavement down to nearly our floor level and then tarmac walkway which continues to descend as it goes beyond our property. Our boundary of paving tiles disappears under the tarmac as does a side window cill.
The front wall has almost completely dried out and we have discovered that most of the water ingress is in the corner between the front wall and along the wall with the steps, (previously hidden by a sealed rotten cupboard clad with an extra layer of plywood over plastic sheet) also where one of our rain water downpipes disappears down into the steps. This pipe is blocked and split and before digging into the steps, as may be necessary, we contacted our Highways Dept., OK we can dig as long as we put it back "same as"! However I have now got to wondering if there is any way we can persuade our council that these steps which we believe they built about 40 years ago, to replace a grassy bank, are causing damage to our property and they should sort it out. Advice appreciated on how to proceed.
Will try to attach photo's but bare with me if I don't manage it first time

 

[robgil]

Hell of a first post, welcome to the forum.
So just to recap, you think the steps and this downpipe are causing damp in your basement that used to be the walk in safe for a solicitors?
When the walk in safe was built did they just put a safe door on or did they do any other works? Seems to me when this was done the basement would have been dry other wise they would have damp proofed it.
So ,what has changed in this time? The steps and downpipe?
I would look into replacing the pipe. It might not be a fault with the steps being there and it might be pretty obvious to the council when they come to take a look that a bust downpipe would be more to blame than their steps.

Edit to add, will you be allowed to replace the pipe or would you have to fit a gulley, can you divert the pipe anyway?

 

[Gareth Hughes]

Hello
First but hopefully not last post. Just purchased a mid to late 19th centuary commercial building, which we believe was built as Solicitors offices, (complete with walk in safe in the basement). Vendor applied for and got Planing Permission to convert to a Private Dwelling but we are reapplying with alterations as the layout did not suit our needs. We are getting on well with our Building Regulations Officer and have spent a couple of weeks knocking off all the wall plaster, the ceiling and removing the parquet floor in the damp basement which is to be our kitchen, with the intention of waterproofing with a sheet plastic membrane, then insulating and possibly finishing with original tongue and groove boards saved from demolished partitions. There is a pavement immediately outside the front wall at about 5ft high, a party wall to the left and rear, and to the right and built against our wall a set of pedestrian steps from pavement down to nearly our floor level and then tarmac walkway which continues to descend as it goes beyond our property. Our boundary of paving tiles disappears under the tarmac as does a side window cill.
The front wall has almost completely dried out and we have discovered that most of the water ingress is in the corner between the front wall and along the wall with the steps, (previously hidden by a sealed rotten cupboard clad with an extra layer of plywood over plastic sheet) also where one of our rain water downpipes disappears down into the steps. This pipe is blocked and split and before digging into the steps, as may be necessary, we contacted our Highways Dept., OK we can dig as long as we put it back "same as"! However I have now got to wondering if there is any way we can persuade our council that these steps which we believe they built about 40 years ago, to replace a grassy bank, are causing damage to our property and they should sort it out. Advice appreciated on how to proceed.
Will try to attach photo's but bare with me if I don't manage it first time

Woah! Hang on!

We are getting on well with our Building Regulations Officer and have spent a couple of weeks knocking off all the wall plaster, the ceiling and removing the parquet floor in the damp basement which is to be our kitchen, with the intention of waterproofing with a sheet plastic membrane, (snip) we have discovered that most of the water ingress is in the corner between the front wall and along the wall with the steps, (previously hidden by a sealed rotten cupboard clad with an extra layer of plywood over plastic sheet)

You've already seen what sheet plastic solutions do, but you want to add another one?

 

[LadyArowana]

[

You've already seen what sheet plastic solutions do, but you want to add another one?

:lol: if something looks like it's working for a little while then people are tempted to go with it as a good solution, it's long term that's the issue isn't it?

 

[Penners]

Welcome, Staggers.

You mentioned your plastic membrane waterproofing treatment in passing but - as you will already have gathered - such treatments tend to ring alarm bells on this forum.

Has this solution been recommended by an expert in such things? And when I say "expert" I don't mean a salesmen thinly disguised as a consultant. I'm afraid many of us have had experience of companies who purport to carry out an expert survey. They then write a high-flown report that recommends an expensive "damp solution" (carried out by themselves, of course), which turns out to be anything but a solution.

I think we would all want to be reassured that your treatment has been recommended by an independent, fully qualified surveyor, who knows how to deal with period buildings. Frankly, unless you've paid such a person for his expert recommendations, you may be taking a risk with your building.

As regards your main question about getting the problem steps sorted out by the council, I think it's unlikely that anyone here will be able to give you a definitive answer without sight of your deeds and the council's records. I really think your solicitor is the best person to give you a view on this situation.

 

[Staggers]

Hello again
Thanks for the replies.
With luck a photo should appear with this post to bolster my lame attempt to describe my problem.
The safe is at the rear of the basement, is above ground level and does not have damp.
My Building Regulations Officer requires me to put in the complete floor and wall plastic membrane, it will hang loose on the walls and has large dimples formed in it to allow air flow behind? then galvanised framework and 4 inch insulation. On the floor I am trying to save the original ashphalt which was under the parquet blocks, over this will go the membrane, 4 inch insulation and concrete. I may be able to get away without putting in a drain system, sump and pump, I will find out at next meeting.
Yes the blocked rain water drain is obviously a serious part of the problem but the condition of the steps which are built against my wall, with cracked and open fillets of mortar, the cracked concrete around the base of the handrail posts and rain splash all contribute. I believe that cutting back the steps and putting in a sunken gulley would be a solution but this is very much a first off for me and I would like to try face to face with appropriate "people" rather than solicitors.
If this photo appears, then should anyone request, I can post more in closeup and inside the basement.
Cheers.

 

[AMc]

FWIW I appreciate the difficulty with meeting building regulations and a period property.
Your building control officer is presumably requiring you meet the thermal element values for Part L1B in the wall and floor?
This doesn't have to be achieved with non breathing materials but you would have to demonstrate that you were meeting the same thermal R/U values.
Breathable insulation tends to be less space efficient than expanded foam.

The air flow between the wall and the membrane sounds like a sensible idea but you will need to generate a flow by ventilating to the outside - has that been discussed?

I can't remember what rules needed to be followed about damp proofing - I was using DPM and concrete anyway but we were lucky in that there was no damp in evidence before we started.

I would strongly advise that you deal with all the possible causes of the damp before you start to build up membranes, insulation and final finishes. There is no reason why this room must be damp but sealing in wet walls without fixing the root causes will result in real problems in the future.

Good luck!

 

[robgil]

Are those pipes cast iron? If so i doubt there is much left of them underground like that.

 

[Schoolmarm]

It is ridiculous. There is a flight of badly made steps, squashed against your house with pipes and all sorts of stuff hidden behind. It most definitely wants a gully type arrangement next to your property.

 

[Penners]

I quite agree. And I agree with Rob that - if the pipes are cast iron, it's quite possible that over time they have corroded away underground or been cracked by soil movement.