working hours enforcement on nearby small business

[balliu]

Hi all,

Hope someone has a bit of advice on this one...
At the rear of my property, there is a small forge which has been there on and off for 40 years, although the current owner has only been there for about 10 years.
Our old house has been occupied by renters for many many years, and its only when we arrived a couple of years ago that we are slowly putting the property back to its original state.
Basically, the owners of the forge have been able to come and go as they please (using our access way) which includes evenings and weekends, often working at that time too.
We enquired to see if a business working hours order can be placed on the business, ie: not to do noisy work at weekends, etc as it really affects our standard of life if they start working. Obviously the renters before us couldnt care less, but it really does annoy us. Plus we have had other problems with them, so we sometimes think they are doing it just to annoy us.
The council told me that as their business has no time restriction placed on it at the time the business opened up (40yrs ago!) then one cannot be placed now. Is that correct? It seems a bit weird to me. After all, areas change over the years, becoming more or less residential, therefore surely this has to be looked at? We are not trying to stop their working hours, just to control it to not spill over into the weekends. They use the ground floor of our house (like a coach house) opening up the big gates, etc so its really quite intrusive.
In the same yard, there is another small business, which is no longer working, which has a time restriction on it, so surely one can be placed on this business?
Any info greatly appreciated.

 

[Gareth Hughes]

Hi all,

Hope someone has a bit of advice on this one...
At the rear of my property, there is a small forge which has been there on and off for 40 years, although the current owner has only been there for about 10 years.
Our old house has been occupied by renters for many many years, and its only when we arrived a couple of years ago that we are slowly putting the property back to its original state.
Basically, the owners of the forge have been able to come and go as they please (using our access way) which includes evenings and weekends, often working at that time too.
We enquired to see if a business working hours order can be placed on the business, ie: not to do noisy work at weekends, etc as it really affects our standard of life if they start working. Obviously the renters before us couldnt care less, but it really does annoy us. Plus we have had other problems with them, so we sometimes think they are doing it just to annoy us.
The council told me that as their business has no time restriction placed on it at the time the business opened up (40yrs ago!) then one cannot be placed now. Is that correct? It seems a bit weird to me. After all, areas change over the years, becoming more or less residential, therefore surely this has to be looked at? We are not trying to stop their working hours, just to control it to not spill over into the weekends. They use the ground floor of our house (like a coach house) opening up the big gates, etc so its really quite intrusive.
In the same yard, there is another small business, which is no longer working, which has a time restriction on it, so surely one can be placed on this business?
Any info greatly appreciated.

Sorry to seem unsympathetic, but you've recently taken on a property next to a forge that's been in business for forty years, and now you've realised that forges are noisy places.

To avoid making the same mistake in the future, you may like to note that church bells sometimes ring, and that animals on farms produce tons of poo, which sometimes smells.

Caveat emptor.

 

[MdB]

Sorry - Agree totally with Gareth on this one.

 

[balliu]

Oh dear! Reading back, I do sound rather evil dont I?!!
Its really not along those lines - these people have been rather intimidating, damaged our access way/property walls, etc. They've even dragged a lorry through the access way that bounced off 4 beams that are holding the 4 story house up....so Im not that bad!
Not trying to close them down, just stop their behaviour out of hours...they are bullying, intimidating people as they wanted to buy the access way, but were never offered it - we got it as a separate purchase with the house. They have caused many upsets with people -
So, thats basically it. Just want to slap a business hours order on them thats all!!

 

[Nemesis]

What sort of access rights do they have? If you own the access you should have the details.

 

[Flyfisher]

Perhaps a time-constraint is not the right approach. I believe there is legislation concerning 'noise nuisance', usually administered by the local authority environmental health people. Might be worth trying that avenue? I understand the previous points about your choice of location, but even airports have to have quiet periods to allow nearby residents to get some sleep sometime.

 

[Nemesis]

This is a difficult one - I have a friend involved in a similar situation. In his case the local authority has asked him to keep a diary of noise nuisance and how it affects him - lack of sleep etc.

Wider access and damage issues are not part of that.

 

[Willmat]

my brother is a blacksmith and I sometimes sympathise with the houses is current forge is near! he is moving to an industrial unit soon anyway.....

although they sound unco-operative, could try talking to them and explaining that working late is causing problems and see if they are un/reasonable - working during the day is to be expected though! working during the night is another matter....

best advice given is talk at length to environmental health. there may also be local by-laws depending on location which further restrict working hours (for example some areas of central London are 8.00 to 6.30 and only half of Saturday).

it can constitute a statutory nuisance (seem to recall this is dealt with by EH) or common law nuisance (waste your money with a solicitor). the Council can be effective and is free.

time restrictions are the best ones to check first as they will probably be allowed to make any noise during permitted hours, but if there are restrictions, it is the noise outside this thats the issue.....

 

[NT]

if theyve done damage they'll continue to do damage. That can be captured on a security camera, then youve got some evidence to work wtih.


NT

 

[L1zzy]

Only thsi week I have contacted my County Council Enironmental health officer as I wnated guidance following a tirade of abuse from a nghbour 4 doors down ove rthe weeken who wnated to stop me fron 'scutching' the plastic emulsion etc from eth front of my cottage. I'd worked 2 hrs each day starting well after 10am and finsihing well before 4. I was so upset at the abuse i though 'd get some guidance. SO I'm now fairly au fait. Different councils approach this problem in different ways but most have guidelines for Constuction sites ie the big boys. I found lots of suggested timeframes for activity on the internet. These can be proposed by you or your neigbours in order to mutually come to an arrangement. This morning i have done an open letter to every residents in the Terrace where I live and advised them of what I'm doing, that the council and Conservation are fully aware of what I'm doing and I propose some times when I will will work and when I will not suggesting they come and talk to me (rather than shout) to reach mutual agreement. If I were you i would contact the Local Environmental Health officer and have a chat - even better go meet him/her - show you wantt a 'reasonable' solution something 'mutually' acceptable - worst case they often have a mediation service.They will keep a record of the conversation. You could then perhaps write a letter to the Smithy to suggest some times for noisy activity. Don't give up but also a business thats been there 40 years will hold some sway. MUTUAL agreement thats the way forward. My neigbours really upset me by shouting at me but a letter has enabled me to feel I have taken adult action to resolve concerns and also gives them some clear way forwrad of reaching agreement. Good luck.

 

[Penners]

Sorry - Agree totally with Gareth on this one.

Ditto.

The common metaphor for your situation is people who move next door to a church then complain about the bells.

Sorry.