Woodworm treatment?

[massaira]

I have recently bought a 19th century house in Greece and am planning to renovate/restore as eco-friendly and traditionally as money allows
I’m so happy I’ve found this forum, I’ve been learning a lot! If anyone would be kind enough to suggest…
My architect has proposed, as part of the maintenance of the house’s wooden structure, to treat the wood chemically against woodworm. Although there are holes in exposed wood I’ve seen, this sounds like a preemptive measure rather that treatment of an active infestation. Searching for more information, I’ve found this is not always recommended. Wondering if there is another way to protect the wood other than incecticides?

 

[mardinor]

What conditions does the architect believe have suddenly changed that would attract woodwork now, that have apparently not manifested in the last 200 years?

 

[massaira]

Thank you for your reply, I guess he could see holes in a part of the wooden frame that is exposed and considers this one of the reasons for the house’s structural problems. The structural approach will be to build inner walls which will bear the weight (as this will allow us to work on the house in stages) so I imagine there will be a question on whether to treat the new wooden wall frame as well…

 

[Cubist]

Would you provide some photographs please of the affected timbers and some information about where the worm damage is and its extent if known. Rather than building walls it may be simpler and cheaper to install acrow or needle props to support the structure, however their placement will depend on the condition of the timbers. Also, is your architect sure its woodworm damage? Termites are also found in Greece and, as I understand it, can do much more damage.

 

[Toby Newell]

I have recently bought a 19th century house in Greece and am planning to renovate/restore as eco-friendly and traditionally as money allows
I’m so happy I’ve found this forum, I’ve been learning a lot! If anyone would be kind enough to suggest…
My architect has proposed, as part of the maintenance of the house’s wooden structure, to treat the wood chemically against woodworm. Although there are holes in exposed wood I’ve seen, this sounds like a preemptive measure rather that treatment of an active infestation. Searching for more information, I’ve found this is not always recommended. Wondering if there is another way to protect the wood other than incecticides?

Please post pictures.

Did your surveyor notice damp?

Pest like damp and mostly softwood and / or sapwood of hardwoods ie easier to munch. They generally cannot tolerate dry wood.

In an age when people fret being around mdf because of formaldehyde offgassing I personally would be loathe to live cocooned in a fuzz of permethrin. It is toxic to humans but we metabolise it quickly so it is licenced even as a topical cream at max 5%. However, being surrounded by much higher concentrations over extended periods is an effective chronic dose with which your endocrine, hepatic and immune systems will be activated at a low level for long periods.

Some critical thinking here, the argument may seem facile as safety generally improves as knowledge advances in all areas... But, in particular biocides (herbicides / pesticides) of their age have commonly found to be very toxic after the fact. DDT? There are more banned substances than approved, even Glyphosphate the worlds most widely used biocide has been found to be carcinogenic but is still used because we currently have no fully tested alternative (that is 'economically compatible')

Another word of caution, rules in Greece should be EU rules (but we know about Greece and 'rules' ) check they do not use a more toxic version. Organophosphates and organochlorides are significantly more toxic.

Again I may be being facile again (this is from a person who has used hundreds of litres of dichloromethane, xylene, acetone, methylated spirits, white spirits, isocyanates, polyester resin etc) but my thought is our DNA is 60% identical to a banana and 98.6% identical to a chimp.

I am guessing we are much closer to an insect or larvae than we are to a banana and any chemical that acts on a biological DNA based system will likely affect us in some way or another.

Again, everything these days is classed as causing cancer so use your own judgement here, but Permethrin is classed as a carcinogen and mutagen, banned totally in Canada and banned in the EU for large scale agricultural use.

I am therefore minded to think that it is the intention of the EU to ban it at some point in the future, but like glyphosphate are dragging their heels for economic / political reasons, like with glyphosphate (roundup)

Being a power user of solvents, finishes and chemicals in general and creator of vast masses of dusts biocides are the one thing that concerns me.

My totally subjective opinion is unless a serious infestation is extant then it might be foolish to expose yourself to these toxic chemicals.

Anyone who is blasé to their use, especially over large lived in areas (like that which was prevalent in the 70s and 80s in the UK) displays a lack of intelligence imho.

I know this is a bit of a rant but I find it amusing and perplexing that people fret about things such as mdf, lead paint and wood dust and yet are seemingly blasé with regard to toxins specifically engineered to kill DNA bearing organisms.

 

[Toby Newell]

Would you provide some photographs please of the affected timbers and some information about where the worm damage is and its extent if known. Rather than building walls it may be simpler and cheaper to install acrow or needle props to support the structure, however their placement will depend on the condition of the timbers. Also, is your architect sure its woodworm damage? Termites are also found in Greece and, as I understand it, can do much more damage.

An important consideration.

In countries that have much more destructive pest, like termite, often the safest procedure (I believe) is to fumigate rather than coat, which reduces chronic offgassing over time. The structure would be vacant, covered with tarps and fumed over a period of weeks, then uncovered and left to dissipate before habitation.

 

[massaira]

Whow, thank you all so much for your time, you’ve been so helpful! Your comments make sense to me, I will take everything on board and discuss further with my architect.

 

[LadyArowana]

Also, is your architect sure its woodworm damage? Termites are also found in Greece and, as I understand it, can do much more damage.

Termites can be very sneaky, they get in unseen and can munch away from below and leave an outside shell which looks ok but the centre has been destroyed. At least woodworm have the decency to leave holes and little piles of dust to alert to their activities.