Woodworm treatment products

[SilverSaloon]

Hi

i thought i'd ask a bit about the common furniture beetle who are squatting in my new-to-me house (according to "damp specialist surveyor/salesman" which could just be touting for business, we shall see), anyway...

I'm looking at treating the roof void timbers and floor timbers for woodworm - does anyone have any knowledge re what products to use?

ive found this:

INSECTICIDE FLUID / WOODWORM TREATMENT 1L MAKES 25L | eBay

MICROTECH INSECTICIDE / WOODWORM TREATMENT CONC. 1L | eBay

and

WYKABOR 10 TIMBER TREATMENT FOR WOODWORM DRY/WET ROT 5L | eBay

The 1st two are cheap as they dilute to 25 litres, wheas the wykabor 10 is 5 litres for roughly the same price.

As i've got a large area to cover the price difference is going to be quite a bit so would the cheaper stuff be fine you reckon or should i opt for the better-known brand?

cheers

Derek

 

[worms]

Derek, welcome to the forum and congrats on the new-to-you house. First posts take a wee while to appear so I hope you are still with us!

The general view on here tends to be that if you sort out the humidity, the woodworm will die out on its own without any chemical help. That is perhaps easier said than done! It perhaps also makes a difference whether we are talking about oak timbers with a less palatable heart-wood or pine that the beetle larvae can munch right through.

Before you start you might be wise to make sure that the infestation is still active - the beetles should emerge in spring, so if you wait a few weeks you should see new signs of frass below the affected timbers. You can also tape tissue paper across the timber and look for holes in this.

If you really want to use a chemical, how are you going to apply it? There is probably little point in treating the visible/accessible bits if you are leaving the inaccessible parts untreated.

And is there any reason that you need to use the combined insecticide/fungicide? If not, you could probably get the borate cheaper than the expensive combined product that you quote.

A lot of people might suggest that you go for the borate rather than the permethrin, but I think I would opt for the Permethrin, as a cheap and cheerful relatively safe insecticide ( just don't let the cats anywhere near it!)

Chances are, though, that the house will not fall down if you leave the beasties alone and concentrate on making the environment less hospitable for them.

EDIT: Just noticed you are fae Fife so: a) unlikely that we are talking about an oak-framed building and b) more difficult to get humidity levels down to the sort of levels that will discourage woodworm.

 

[vicky whitworth]

When I bought my first house I remember my father created such fear in me that I believed the woodworm - diagnosed by the survey - would eat up the whole house overnight. That was 25 years ago and blow me down it's still standing without any woodworm treatment.

I'm afraid I'd prefer to have a few woodworms chumping away on the timbers that have my home filled with obnoxious chemicals. Personally I'd do nothing until I'd had time to assess whether there is a serious live problem except do my best to reduce damp problems. After that I'd still do nothing - looking the other way whenever there is a pile of frass - that's what they invented the hoover for anyway Call me an ostrich but I don't think the place will fall down in my lifetime.

 

[plasticpigeon]

I'll second getting rid of the damp conditions that the beetle (larvae) like first as this will probably get rid of the infestation.

 

[MatthewC]

Derek

worms knows more than the rest of us about this (possibly linked to his user name?), so consider his advice carefully.

From my own experience, I would say give it time to try to dry out before you do something which you might regret (quite apart from spending money that might not need to be spent). My own house was more than damp 28 months ago but became dry and even cosy without using modern chemicals or cement based products. There were plenty of woodworm holes all over the place but I've never seen a sign of any recent activity - all I did was to sort the dampness due to water ingress. A general rule I learned from this forum is to not do anything major to an old property in a hurry apart from stop the water getting in (and even then do it properly, not with modern fixes).

(I must confess my roofer did use some stuff on the rafters but that was the very first job and I was not so well versed then!)

Matthew

 

[worms]

worms knows more than the rest of us about this...

No, no no! :shock: i'm a complete amateur on the woodworm front!

 

[plasticpigeon]

Matt Green is the mould and grub expert.

 

[88v8]

I sprayed five gallons of this in one of our attics, could have done with more.
http://www.screwfix.com/p/cuprinol-5-star-wood-treatment-5ltr/69133
It smells reassuringly unpleasant and the tin is covered with warnings about it being Daaaaangerous!! which suggests that it might actually work.

That was to kill whatever bugs might still be alive in the hazel trunks that form our roof rafters. Some of them had been eaten to the point of collapse.
The main frame of the house is elm, which has been extensively munched in the past, but as has been said this only affected the outer layers of the wood and I have seen no evidence that anything is living there now.

Ivor

 

[Lime]

I don't use chemicals available today.
None of them work.
In my former days "real" chemicals were used that hung around for decades.
The wood rot didn't stop however and we still had woodworm.

Woodworm was feared by my mother and any hole was immediately made much larger by a pointed small injection kit specially supplied by the DDT manufacturers.
(A total waste of time)

Woodworm do not like dry wood.
simple.

Wherever woodworm are active there will be piles of dust directly under the holes and the holes will be clean and bright.
But the single woodworm who made one of the holes has left and flown elsewhere.

I suggest using a hoover/dyson/henry to clear around the wood with holes and inspect the area several days later.

 

[DJH]

Take a look at old railway sleepers.. creosote certainly did it's job on them. We used to dip the ends of fence posts in a bucket of the stuff and then into a pile of coal dust but don't ask me why, I was too young to be interested in things like that...

Wood worm don't like dry timber but here's the rub... How can you, without drastic 'modern' methods and materials, keep a period property warm and dry yet still let damp floors and walls breathe. I'm all for most modern materials especially the stainless steel fixings available now from tacks to joist hangers :roll:

Doug

 

[MatthewC]

How can you, without drastic 'modern' methods and materials, keep a period property warm and dry yet still let damp floors and walls breathe.

Well Doug, my limecrete/limestone flag floor is not wet, but the old quarry tiles were damp. I would suggest that the breathability of the new floor allows any dampness under the floor to evaporate before it ever becomes visibly damp. That same breathability acts through the 18" thick walls, and now that they have dried out completely (which took over a year) they act as a heat reservoir whuich keeps the inside temperature fairly even.

There is a lifestyle compromise required with old houses - I do not want to (over) heat the house at huge cost, just warm enough to keep me comfy, and so I am happy to add a jumper rather than keep it at tropical temperatures. I also expect that there will be draughts in the house (even after my secondary glazing), and these are ctually necessary to allow the damp air to get outside, rather than keeping it all sealed in like modern houses.

Hence my 170-year old house is warm and dry as far as I am concerned, and I haven't used any modern materials to do so.

Matthew

 

[Zebra]

worms knows more than the rest of us about this...

No, no no! :shock: i'm a complete amateur on the woodworm front!

What type of worms is it that you know about then worms?

 

[Lime]

Take a look at old railway sleepers.. creosote certainly did it's job on them.

Doug

But despite the creosote the wood still rotted.

BTW the Romans used to treat their fence post footings by burning the wood surface to charcoal.

 

[worms]

worms knows more than the rest of us about this...

No, no no! :shock: i'm a complete amateur on the woodworm front!

What type of worms is it that you know about then worms?

The sort that might put the average zebra off its dinner!

 

[DJH]

I think you make my point for me Matthew, you maybe wouldn't need to wear an extra pullover if you had used some 'modern' materials. I wonder if, when our houses were built that every effort was made to have warm draft free houses and it's just the passage of time and old age which has made them what they are today, so are we too wrong to try to return them to their original state in this regard?

I think as well that we sometimes forget that a lot of modern materials are traditional materials used in different combinations plaster board being a good example.

Doug

 

[Lime]

I think as well that we sometimes forget that a lot of modern materials are traditional materials used in different combinations plaster board being a good example.

Doug

But totally inappropriate if you wish to maintain authenticity.

 

[DJH]

True but conversely I have maintained the authenticity of my house by leaving the existing finishes behind the plasterboard thereby maintaining reversibility.

 

[worms]

How can you, without drastic 'modern' methods and materials, keep a period property warm and dry yet still let damp floors and walls breathe.

Well Doug...

While I think I agree with everything you have both said, my experience is that trying to keep the humidity down in a wet Scottish summer is a major challenge. The OP is from one of the drier parts, but even a well ventilated attic space is going to struggle to maintain low RH levels through the periods of the year when the house is unheated. It may be that this doesn't raise the actual moisture content of the wood sufficiently to support larval development.

My house had been treated before I bought it, but a couple of parts that were missed continued to harbour furniture beetle (back board for the electricity meter and the top of the bathroom door). I'm afraid I nuked 'em!

 

[MatthewC]

I think you make my point for me Matthew, you maybe wouldn't need to wear an extra pullover if you had used some 'modern' materials.

I didn't mean "extra pullover" - that makes it sound as though I'm going around wearing several layers of wool; I meant "wear a jumper as well as a shirt". People nowdays seem to expect a high room temperature and go around in shirt sleeves - if that's what you want then an old house is not for you!

I wonder if, when our houses were built that every effort was made to have warm draft free houses and it's just the passage of time and old age which has made them what they are today, so are we too wrong to try to return them to their original state in this regard?

I would say that I have returned my house essentially to its original state. The main exceptions are the roof membrane, the sheepswool loft insulation, the secondary glazing and brush strip under the doors. Surely it would have been wrong to try and make it "modern" (i.e. gypsum plaster, dpc, cement pointing etc) when this is doomed to fail, to the detriment of the long tem survival of the house?

 

[Lime]

I would say that I have returned my house essentially to its original state. The main exceptions are the roof membrane, the sheepswool loft insulation, the secondary glazing and brush strip under the doors. Surely it would have been wrong to try and make it "modern" (i.e. gypsum plaster, dpc, cement pointing etc) when this is doomed to fail, to the detriment of the long tem survival of the house?

Absolutely!
What is the point of using modern materials when their effectiveness is short-lived and will cause many more problems in the future?