Woodworm - to treat or not to treat?

[pineapple]

There are lots of woodworm holes in the ancient beams of my cottage and it may be active in one particular damp corner. I had a surveyor round who thinks it might be active in the rood timbers though I note his survey report did not say active - just 'signs of'. The company propose spraying all visible timbers with a permethrin solution and actually say I could leave the loft insulation in situ though the 20 year guarantee only covers the area sprayed.
1) Surely a credible company would insist on treating the whole area ie minus the loft insulation (however this is a major name in the business btw)
2) What would be the effect on the loft insulation if any spray got onto it?
3) Are there greener/safer products than permethrin?
Not really capable of going down the diy route so between a rock and a hard place. If I am going to have it done - by whoever - now would be the time before I move in. To be honest I'm mainly interested in a guarantee with regards to future resale. Am I wrong in thinking most buyers' mortgage providers would insist on it?

 

[skier-hughes]

4. Don't spray, find the cause of the dampness and put in place a remedy to this problem, let wood dry out, infestation will go of it's own accord.

woodworm will only live in damper wood, if you don't remedy the damp problem you'll always run the risk of having an infestation sprayed or not.

 

[Lime]

Its probable that the beams have been treated many times before.
Is there any fine clean wood dust directly under any of the holes?
If there isn't the holes are old and woodworm long gone.
I wouldn't spray or pay anyone to spray anything.
Treat the damp problem, allow air and time to dry it out, consider the holes as part of the history of the house.

 

[Matt Green]

1) Surely a credible company would insist on treating the whole area ie minus the loft insulation (however this is a major name in the business btw)
2) What would be the effect on the loft insulation if any spray got onto it?
3) Are there greener/safer products than permethrin?

1) No, because only the damp area is susceptible to attack. Treating any other timber is easy to guarantee- there will be no risk of furniture beetle anyway. They know that and their guarantee will require you to fix the leak meaning that they are guaranteeing that furniture beetle wont attack dry timber. Easy money. I bet the treatment doesn't include cleaning the dust of the timbers either.
2) None really.
3) "Fixing the leak" is a great product, highly efficient at removing furniture beetle and very green. However, many PCA accredited companies don't sell that product and so rarely quote for it. "Cleaning it, leaving it alone and checking next year" is also a very green product, often effective, but again undersold by PCA companies. Permethrin really isn't that harmful, but treating the localised area is all that is required.

Fill the holes with beeswax and see what happens.


M.

 

[CliffordPope]

I really do not understand this assertion that beetle only attacks damp wood, because it is the exact opposite of my experience and observation.
Why does woodworm seem espectially attracted to the handles of woodworking tools stored in a dry place, but ignores the workbench legs standing on a damp floor?
Why does it attack wooden ornaments on a shelf over an open fire, but not go for floorboards in a damp corner?

 

[garnett]

There is an easy way to check if it is still active.

Drawing pin some card (business card thickness) over the holes. If it is a live infestation you will soon get holes in the card. If not it is historic.

Worm needs damp conditions to thrive. It will attack other wood if you get a good outbreak. This is why furniture and tools that are dry get attacked.

Good luck.

Garnett

 

[Keith Bowman]

I really do not understand this assertion that beetle only attacks damp wood, because it is the exact opposite of my experience and observation.
Why does woodworm seem espectially attracted to the handles of woodworking tools stored in a dry place, but ignores the workbench legs standing on a damp floor?
Why does it attack wooden ornaments on a shelf over an open fire, but not go for floorboards in a damp corner?

Before deciding whether to attack the bugs or cure the damp, it would be best to find out what is making the holes! There are, for example, these little kiwi chaps http://www.thewcg.org.uk/curculionidae/0262.htm who go for damp wood or wood which has previously been damp and then there are vulgar little common fellows like these https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_furniture_beetle who go for the soft, easy option. I know enough to know that I don't know nearly enough to know what to do with asking a real expert. Find an entomologist

 

[skier-hughes]

I really do not understand this assertion that beetle only attacks damp wood, because it is the exact opposite of my experience and observation.
Why does woodworm seem espectially attracted to the handles of woodworking tools stored in a dry place, but ignores the workbench legs standing on a damp floor?
Why does it attack wooden ornaments on a shelf over an open fire, but not go for floorboards in a damp corner?

Before deciding whether to attack the bugs or cure the damp, it would be best to find out what is making the holes! There are, for example, these little kiwi chaps http://www.thewcg.org.uk/curculionidae/0262.htm who go for damp wood or wood which has previously been damp and then there are vulgar little common fellows like these https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_furniture_beetle who go for the soft, easy option. I know enough to know that I don't know nearly enough to know what to do with asking a real expert. Find an entomologist

Yep, that'll be Matt Green then ! :lol: :wink:

 

[garnett]

There are such things! I have worked with Hutton and Rostron in the past. Forensic Building Scientists that deal with lots of grade 1 buildings including the Alert Hall. If you ever get a chance to see one of their presentations it is great. They have trained rot dogs that sniff out wet and dry rot!

I am sure that there are others.

Garnett

 

[Matt Green]

I really do not understand this assertion that beetle only attacks damp wood, because it is the exact opposite of my experience and observation.
Why does woodworm seem espectially attracted to the handles of woodworking tools stored in a dry place, but ignores the workbench legs standing on a damp floor?
Why does it attack wooden ornaments on a shelf over an open fire, but not go for floorboards in a damp corner?

It's demonstrable in the first instance: there is a British Standard for culturing furniture beetles, it gives the optimised moisture content of the timber required. What you are describing is the difference between heartwood and sapwood content. Heartwood of timbers used in structural work contains phenols and tannins that render it 'durable' as in: it can endure biodeterioration by fungi and insects. The sapwood of the same structural timbers lacks those chemicals that confer durability and have a higher nitrogen content, rendering them more susceptible to insect attack. The chemicals that confer durability are known as col water extractives: in that they can be extracted from the timber with cold water.

Handles of tools are more likely to be made from cheaper cuts of wood that contain more sapwood content by volume, or from non-durable timber (beech, that sort of thing).

M.

 

[Matt Green]

There are, for example, these little kiwi chaps http://www.thewcg.org.uk/curculionidae/0262.htm who go for damp wood or wood which has previously been damp

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/offer-listing/B001P9SJT4/ref=dp_olp_new_mbc?ie=UTF8&condition=new

 

[Penners]

It's reassuring to see that MGreen02 has given that book a 5-star rating!! :wink: