Woodworm - So upset - just purchased only to find multiple infestations please help

[Rake722]

Hi all, new here and have been reading a lot of the previous advice given about woodworm.

My wife and I love period properties and have after many years of saving just purchased our forever home. A 5 bed Edwardian house with garden.

I was in the garden and noticed the last row of tiles on the external buildings as askew - looking closer the wood bearer on top of the wall - riddled with woodworm holes. I was disheartened but at least it’s not in the main building.

The. I found it in the rafters of the garage and looked for frass- I found lots without but some with frass.

Then I was in the downstairs hall which has sanded and varnished pine floors - I saw some discolouration and upon kneeling - exit holes ! So no longer confined to the pit buildings.

I checked the rest of the floor and indeed found other areas with exit holes. The structure of the garage rafters and floor is still strong except for a sliver of floor about half an inch wide that has gone soft.

Today I was working upstairs on the first floor removing some dead legs and was disheartened to find exit holes in 2 floor boards. Decided to lift them and found about 4-5 pine joists affected too with holes that look fresh and the presence of frass in most of the holes. Granted they are still very strong and structurally look sound.

The temptation was to get a company in to do a survey and fleece me for £££££££ so I searched google and found this group.

We are just about to start some structural work on the kitchen. And lounge that will be very expensive but since this discovery I’m on the edge of holding off the essential works as this might be even more important.

Many of the things I’ve read about determination of a live infestation suggest the presence of frass to be the indicator and mine has it.

What should I do ? I don’t have lots and lots of money left after purchase to give to a company to treat it with permethrin

Does the whole house need floor removal and treatment or do I treat areas I’ve found ?
What about the beautiful sanded and varnished floor ? Only exit holes there which don’t look fresh.

Any advice gratefully received. I’ll try to attach images too

First garage rafters then varnished floor then upstairs boards but I don’t have any images of the joists till tomorrow

Many thanks in advance. We are both panicking now our dream house became king a nightmare

 

[Lacan07]

Hi all, new here and have been reading a lot of the previous advice given about woodworm.

My wife and I love period properties and have after many years of saving just purchased our forever home. A 5 bed Edwardian house with garden.

I was in the garden and noticed the last row of tiles on the external buildings as askew - looking closer the wood bearer on top of the wall - riddled with woodworm holes. I was disheartened but at least it’s not in the main building.

The. I found it in the rafters of the garage and looked for frass- I found lots without but some with frass.

Then I was in the downstairs hall which has sanded and varnished pine floors - I saw some discolouration and upon kneeling - exit holes ! So no longer confined to the pit buildings.

I checked the rest of the floor and indeed found other areas with exit holes. The structure of the garage rafters and floor is still strong except for a sliver of floor about half an inch wide that has gone soft.

Today I was working upstairs on the first floor removing some dead legs and was disheartened to find exit holes in 2 floor boards. Decided to lift them and found about 4-5 pine joists affected too with holes that look fresh and the presence of frass in most of the holes. Granted they are still very strong and structurally look sound.

The temptation was to get a company in to do a survey and fleece me for £££££££ so I searched google and found this group.

We are just about to start some structural work on the kitchen. And lounge that will be very expensive but since this discovery I’m on the edge of holding off the essential works as this might be even more important.

Many of the things I’ve read about determination of a live infestation suggest the presence of frass to be the indicator and mine has it.

What should I do ? I don’t have lots and lots of money left after purchase to give to a company to treat it with permethrin

Does the whole house need floor removal and treatment or do I treat areas I’ve found ?
What about the beautiful sanded and varnished floor ? Only exit holes there which don’t look fresh.

Any advice gratefully received. I’ll try to attach images too

First garage rafters then varnished floor then upstairs boards but I don’t have any images of the joists till tomorrow

Many thanks in advance. We are both panicking now our dream house became king a nightmare

View attachment 15393

View attachment 15394

View attachment 15395

View attachment 15396

View attachment 15397

View attachment 15398

View attachment 15399

View attachment 15400

I'm currently on a train so I can't view your images unfortunately. For commercial treatments they usually say if you find one area of infestation you spray the whole house, this involves treating all timbers. The under side of floorboards are treated but obviously not all boards will have to be lifted.

There is an alternative school of thought with regards to this subject however that involves starving the woodworm of the moisture required to survive. This will obviously involve fixing any damp issues that may have been the catalyst for the critters in the first place. I much more worthwhile use of your money perhaps.

Either way I wouldn't panic, I believe Matt is our resident expert and I'm sure will be along soon if he's logged on.

 

[jamest]

I've lived in a number of period properties of various ages in my life and all of them had signs of woodworm, sometimes active infestations usually revealed by the presence of the adult beetles on the windows. In every case, the culprit was the common furniture beetle, whose activities are often regarded as adding 'character'. I even have a set of ladder backed oak chairs of recent vintage that I inherited from my mother with fake flight holes that were put in by the makers (for which, I presume, she paid extra).

Anyway, from what I can see (which isn't much to be fair), yours look like common furniture beetle exit holes and some galleries. If that's what they are, then you don't have much to worry about - they are seldom (if ever?) of structural significance, even in pine, and the amount of 'damage' you have there is very minor. I lived in a victorian tenement flat in Edinburgh once upon a time and the floor boards were far worse than yours (and stripped) and none of them was anywhere close to breaking. Mind you, the exposed worm galleries did tend to fill with dust and other crap.

If it were me, I wouldn't bother with insecticidal treatment, but I would make sure that everything is as dry as possible and that there are no sources of moisture - moisture is the enemy of wood. Hopefully, as Lacan mentions, Matt will be along to give some better informed advice!

 

[Rake722]

Thank you both. This is a substantial property and if full treatment is required I don’t think I would be able to afford it simply put.

I will try and take some better photos later today as I am not yet living in it.

Regarding damp - there is no sign of moisture in the affected area. None at all. Also no sign of any beetles on window ledges or anywhere else for that matter.

I’m considering asking a local specialist to have a look, he has good reviews which support the notion that he is not a rip off and is realistic in his approach to such matters.

I’m hoping this is an old infestation rather than active.

 

[frustin]

did you do a full level 3 survey? I'd have thought this would have featured in the report?

 

[Lacan07]

Thank you both. This is a substantial property and if full treatment is required I don’t think I would be able to afford it simply put.

I will try and take some better photos later today as I am not yet living in it.

Regarding damp - there is no sign of moisture in the affected area. None at all. Also no sign of any beetles on window ledges or anywhere else for that matter.

I’m considering asking a local specialist to have a look, he has good reviews which support the notion that he is not a rip off and is realistic in his approach to such matters.

I’m hoping this is an old infestation rather than active.

I would have said spraying the house was unnecessary. I had mine done when I first bought my house but if I had my time again I wouldn't have bothered. I needed to lift boards and fix some damp issues anyway. You may well be right that this is an old infestation that just needs to be monitored.

 

[Cubist]

Some here might disagree with me but...

As you seem to be a fairly handy person why not treat yourself to a little peace of mind and save a small fortune into the bargain? Five litres of a suitable woodworm treatment can be had for about £25-30 and can simply be painted on to the timbers you know or suspect have been attacked. An extra £40-50 will also get you a pressure sprayer, mask and eye protection to help you get the job done faster - ideal for your outbuilding but maybe not so much for use in the house except perhaps the joists where access is possible.

 

[Matt Green]

Well, this is a rarity- some of that looks active.

The damage in the varnished hall floorboards is not recent or active, so you can cross that off the list. The damage to the lifted boards is less clear but I would be inclined to say it's old given that the colour of the frass (bore dust) is the same colour as the timber fragments splintered from the boards.

The roof timbers are a different matter: the edges of the exit holes look sharp and the colour of the timber at the back of the tunnels.

I would agree with Cubist- brush treat the effected areas of the rafters with a suitable insecticidal preservative. after that it is a case of vacuuming thoroughly, filling any holes in areas you suspect of having activity in the house with beeswax and waiting a year to get some more information. The timber used in the garage roof was probably not top quality and doesn't look pre-treated- the timber in the house will be higher quality and be generally warmer and drier.

 

[Kearn]

did you do a full level 3 survey? I'd have thought this would have featured in the report?

Highly unlikely. A level 3 report is rarely worth the electronic paper it is typed on.

 

[Matt Green]

The roof timbers are a different matter: the edges of the exit holes look sharp and the colour of the timber at the back of the tunnels is lighter than the surface showing that less light has fallen on the back of the tunnel, there has been less UV colour change and so the damage is relatively recent.

My apologies, I was posting in a hurry yesterday.

M.

 

[Nikinokinoo]

Well, this is a rarity- some of that looks active.

The damage in the varnished hall floorboards is not recent or active, so you can cross that off the list. The damage to the lifted boards is less clear but I would be inclined to say it's old given that the colour of the frass (bore dust) is the same colour as the timber fragments splintered from the boards.

The roof timbers are a different matter: the edges of the exit holes look sharp and the colour of the timber at the back of the tunnels.

I would agree with Cubist- brush treat the effected areas of the rafters with a suitable insecticidal preservative. after that it is a case of vacuuming thoroughly, filling any holes in areas you suspect of having activity in the house with beeswax and waiting a year to get some more information. The timber used in the garage roof was probably not top quality and doesn't look pre-treated- the timber in the house will be higher quality and be generally warmer and drier.

 

[Nikinokinoo]

Managed to reply without writing anything! I’m following this post with interest as we’ve just been up into our loft to get the Xmas decorations down and the rafter nearest the hatch also looks like it may have some woodworm and the wood on the side of the rafter is flaky (the main rafter is still solid). Had a night of panicking and just seen this post about brushing on insecticide pesticide and beeswax. Any suggestions on the best pesticide treatment to use? Thanks so much!

 

[Cubist]

Cuprinol is the one I typically use but most brands seem to contain permethrin. Its worth noting though that 5L goes a very long way.

 

[Rake722]

Thanks all I had a local specialist in last night who did a thorough survey and with direct observation advised that all of it seems to be historic but advised to treat the garage rafters with a product only used in the trade and he gave me the name and place to buy it.

We went through all the rooms with the moisture meter Joyce to hold dry with a reading of no .8 he went into the attic and checked all the rafters and woodwork in there and everything was good so it’s a case of an old historical localised infestation and whatever is in the garage

I have today bought the concentrate and plan to apply it asap. I bought P3 masks as well as disposable overalls.

I have to say, I was very impressed with a gentleman that turned up. His company is called Perfect Preservation based in Liverpool and rather than have my pants down he gave me a very realistic opinion and didn’t even offer to get paid to spray it himself. He was a member of the Property care association but definitely not a cowboy Initially he said because of the life-cycle I should paint it white and watch for re occurrence rather than jumping organs blazing tearing the place apart.

 

[Matt Green]

Thanks all I had a local specialist in last night who did a thorough survey and with direct observation advised that all of it seems to be historic but advised to treat the garage rafters

Nice to know I still have a career option to fall back on.

Initially he said because of the life-cycle I should paint it white and watch for re occurrence rather than jumping organs blazing tearing the place apart.

Not bad advice, not bad at all.

M.

 

[Rake722]

All done - went in brushed all cob webs dust and old frass out, removed everything from the garage.

Used a lance spray tool 5L canister with the correct dilution for the product “wood zone” and applied the solution according to the instructions, perhaps a little generously.

Went inside to the isolated area where it was found under the floorboards in the joists and gave that a coating as well just to be sure as well as any other joists I could access whilst the floorboards were up. I have now gained a little bit of peace of mind following the advice from your kind selves and the surveyor that came to my house hopefully no further action will be required.

 

[Cubist]

Good job, and an untroubled nights sleep to come I hope.

 

[Matt Green]

That 30% Permethrin concentrate is legally available to consumers is absolute insanity, but equally: nicely done- and good use of PPE.

M

 

[Rake722]

That 30% Permethrin concentrate is legally available to consumers is absolute insanity, but equally: nicely done- and good use of PPE.

M

I don’t think it is, but a little bit of name dropping doesn’t hurt. It is a concentrate so once I deleted, I’m sure it’s a lot less than 30%.

And yes, at least I don’t have to worry about woodworm unless I find any more which I now know how to handle.

 

[Rake722]

Oh and I have to add that this little adventure has revealed more issues with the garage - 2 location on the external walls that are visibly wet. Gutters now cleared as well. Next lesson is how to find the source of the water ingress.