Wooden Gates

[Nigel]

A lane down the side of our house has a pair of (c.1950s) wooden gates where the lane joins the road (roughly 7 ft high and 12 foot wide in total). They are completely rotten and are well and truly beyond beyond restoring. They have been painted in modern paint for some time and wet rot has worked up through the doors from the ground up - most likely due to leaf build up never being cleared from behind/under the doors (the house was run down for c.10-15 years before we bought it in 2003). They need replaced and we have listed building consent etc to replace like for like.

I would welcome wise counsel on the best approach in terms of wood type and stain/paints. Hardwood/soft wood/treated wood - and from which trees? Is there an ideal gap between road and the bottom of gate, to avoid a repeat of what happended before?

On the stain/paint front I found the other thread recently posted interesting in its reference to linseed paint, which sound like a strong contender? Alas we have just repainted all our sashes with oil based (F&B) paint, as they were already painted in oil based paint when we bought the house and the paint was in good nick - the recent repainting was just preventative maintenance (and we can't face the thought of stripping all the sashes).

Anyone's insights on the best materials would really be appreciated before we seek quotes, as no doubt vendors will have their own agendas as usual.

Thanks.

 

[Penners]

Oak. Best possible wood for weather resistance. And you don't even need to finish it. Left to its own devices it will weather to a lovely silver look - and last for yonks.

 

[Flyfisher]

Oak was also my immediate thought. Untreated and untainted. Of course, that's not considering the initial cost but given that oak would be genuinely 'fit and forget', the lifetime cost might even work out cheaper than the alternatives - and by 'lifetime' I mean the gates, not yours, as I'm sure solid oak would last for a few generations of owners.

As for an 'ideal' ground gap, I wouldn't worry about it too much and have them fitted reasonably close to the ground (about an inch perhaps). Then, when all the trees have dropped their leaves, a 5 minute sweeping up job should be all it takes to restore free air flow, after which the gates would look after themselves. Not a very demanding annual maintenance regime!

 

[worms]

when all the trees have dropped their leaves

Ha! When is this mythical point in the year? My gates can get blocked all through the year and the gullies too! If I clean them in autumn after the ash trees have dropped their leaves, I find that the sycamore across the road hangs onto its dead leaves till after Christmas, then there are oak and beach leaves that blow in from goodness knows where in January and February and everytime there is a decent wind, the pine needles are knee-deep in the gutter (ok slight exaggeration!). And don't get me started on the wee "cones" that blow out of the Leylandii!

 

[Flyfisher]

Ah, well in that case you'll have to wait until springtime before doing a 5 minute 'spring clean' and rely on the durability of the oak to resist the damp leaves through the winter. I bet oak gates would still see you out though (meant in the nicest possible way, of course).

 

[Andrew Bodenham]

I'd echo the other contributors by suggesting oak as a durable timber well suited to the application. Bear in mind though that even oak is not indestructable, and if allowed to remain wet for prolonged period it will suffer from rot. Therefore good design detailing is an important factor in the longevity of your new gates. By which I mean avoiding water traps, minimising exposed end grain, allowing for seasonal movement. A generous ground clearance will certainly help to conserve the vulnerable bottom edge - maybe 3" - 4". Oak is also readily available in suitable grades, at highly competitive prices.

If you want to go down the paint route I can highly recommend the linseed oil paint produced by Holkham. I first used this on a church flagpole which I renovated a couple of years ago. Although the surface prep was less than ideal an inspection a couple of days ago found the coating looked exactly like it did when first applied. Given that it is atop a church tower in a Lancashire coastal village I'd say it's had a pretty good trial. It's going to be linseed all the way for me from now on.

A garden gate that I painted at about the same time with F&B oil eggshell over aluminium primer is now removed for repainting as the paint is flaking off in sheets where the wood has been damp over the winter. Not what you want to hear, with your windows....

 

[Nemesis]

In fairness, F and B recommend F and B primer is used, and we have exterior eggshell which has lasted several years.

 

[biffvernon]

I like oak (did I mention that before?) but it is very heavy and these are large gates. You are going to have to think carefully about the posts and hinges if you use such a heavy timber. Larch, Douglas fir, Scott's pine or cedar might all be suitable and lighter alternatives, but make sure you only use the heartwood with no sapwood. Falun Red paint is great (if you don't mind them being red).

The gap at the bottom depends on whether you want to allow cats and hedgehogs to pass through freely.

 

[Nigel]

Thanks everyone. We are surrounded by mature trees which are both a curse and a blessing but I agree a keep it clear regime is hardly a big ask. Unpainted will probably be a runner but may need to discuss with the CO as it is A listed and the gates were painted before (albeit they allowed us to paint over the existing egg shell blue with a stone colour - the gates are flanked by 8 ft high blonde sandstone walls).

The one issue I forgot to mention and will also need to think about is the weight of oak - I would like to consider fitting hydraulic rams operated by a beeper (we have a [also rotten] garage further down the lane) and the weight of oak may mitigate against this approach. Also we are based in Scotland so not sure what timber is on offer locally.

The F&B oil eggshell has been fine, with no material deterioration 4 years after we first painted the windows in late 2003 - the repaint was preventative as we have mostly original sashes and crown glass and are determined to keep rot at bay.

Cheers.

 

[Flyfisher]

The one issue I forgot to mention and will also need to think about is the weight of oak - I would like to consider fitting hydraulic rams operated by a beeper (we have a [also rotten] garage further down the lane) and the weight of oak may mitigate against this approach.

I've often wondered if automatic gate 'rams' are really hydraulic or pneumatic. Either way, I doubt the weight of the gates would be a problem. Provided they are well balanced on their mountings (and you have good solid walls for that) then the opening and closing forces required should not be too much for a suitably designed system. After all, I imagine they are fairly easy to open and close by hand.

 

[Ian Bond]

The Holkham site has this to say:

Does the type of wood affect the effectiveness of Holkham Linseed Paints?

Good quality pine, preferably air dried and not kiln dried (which unfortunately most wood is these days) is the best wood to paint on, but we are also using it on hardwoods such as oak and some of the tropical hardwoods.

I've used this linseed on some my (softwood) sash windows, but haven't stripped them back to the bare wood as I haven't got the time. It's stuck well, and looks OK after a couple of years. I've also used it on an oak casement window that I made, and apart from taking several days to dry, the linseed paint has bonded well and looks OK a couple of years later.

The only problem I've got with linseed stuff is the extended drying time, which makes things difficult when you need to secure windows overnight.

I used the F&B exterior eggshell initially, and they recommended that their Aluminium primer was used for hardwood surfaces, which in my case is the window cills. The F&B has lasted well for 5 years on the wooden bits, but has been a disaster on the putty - it just peels and flakes off, no matter how carefully I prepare it. Oh, and once opened you have to use it all up within a few months. My lime white is now lime pink. Never going to buy F&B again.

Personally, I'd prefer to use oak for exterior work, and if it has to be decorated for aesthetic reasons, I'd use a linseed paint.

Lest I offend my Scottish ancestors by suggesting English Oak:
http://www.ashs.co.uk/content/blogcategory/56/80/

The gate opening systems I've looked at seem to be able to handle gates up to 3 meters long per 'wing', weighing up to 800 kg. That's some heavy gate. I suppose you could calculate the likely weight of your new gates with a bit o' reckonin' ?

 

[Penners]

Oak is a very good wood. It's used for making piles for piers.
When I says piles for piers, I doesn't mean 'aemorrhoids for aristocrats.

Can't remember where that little gem comes from.