Wood panel ceiling

[El Greyo]

Hello

Our ceiling in our kitchen is lath and plaster but is cracked and sagging in several areas. Ripping the whole thing down and replacing would be messy, time consuming and put the kitchen out of action for several weeks. So we thought we could put tongue-and-groove boards under it (I'd fix battens to the joists). Still quite a lot of work and expensive but it would look nicer, I'd actually quite enjoy doing it and would be less disruptive. But would a wooden ceiling be a fire risk, particularly in a kitchen?

I've done an internet search and not specifically found anything that helps me. My DIY manual describes using tongue and groove as a lining for walls and ceilings but building regs do change.

If a wooden panelled ceiling is ok, then does anyone know of any LED downlights that can be installed in wood? I bought one as a sample and it says only to be installed in plasterboard and not lath and plaster - is that because of a fire risk to the laths?

Thanks

 

[a twig]

Any downlights that are F marked (F in a triangle) means they are fine to install in a flammable ceiling.

 

[mardinor]

It’s probably easier to fix the ceiling than you imagine. 10x easier than the panelling idea. Screw any sagging areas back to joists with countersunk stainless penny washers (drill with flat spade bit). Scrim tape over cracks then fill lightly over with polyfilla or jointing compound (like plasterers do with plasterboard joints). Bet you’d get it all done in a day.

 

[El Greyo]

Any downlights that are F marked (F in a triangle) means they are fine to install in a flammable ceiling.

Ok, thanks, I've seen that said a few times during my research but I've also seen some conflicting statements. The downlight I bought was F rated but specifically stated only to be installed in plasterboard ceilings. From what I have been able to find out, the F rating refers to the ability of the downlight to prevent the spread of fire. F rated downlights have an intumescent strip that expands when heated and seals the hole around the light slowing the spread of fire to the floor above. So I'm not sure this means they can all be installed in flammable ceilings. Unless you know for sure that is?

 

[a twig]

Any downlights that are F marked (F in a triangle) means they are fine to install in a flammable ceiling.

Ok, thanks, I've seen that said a few times during my research but I've also seen some conflicting statements. The downlight I bought was F rated but specifically stated only to be installed in plasterboard ceilings. From what I have been able to find out, the F rating refers to the ability of the downlight to prevent the spread of fire. F rated downlights have an intumescent strip that expands when heated and seals the hole around the light slowing the spread of fire to the floor above. So I'm not sure this means they can all be installed in flammable ceilings. Unless you know for sure that is?

You're conflating fire rated and F marked. They are different things. Fire rated (as in preventing the spread of fire) has nothing to do with the F symbol.

Handy guide here: https://www.electriciancourses4u.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/downlighter-symbols-infographic-1.png

I'm a product manager at a UK luminaire manufacturer, and believe me you're not the first to confuse the two, so hopefully that helps.

 

[El Greyo]

Thanks very much Twig, that clears things up very nicely. I was, indeed, completely confused by all the different advice I found on the internet. The document you linked to makes it very clear.

Thanks. I think I will get the electrician round before I start any work to make sure he is happy with our plans before I start anything.

 

[plasticpigeon]

Tongue and groove over would be a total pain to do, and the result may not have wide appeal. Have you rejected plasterboard and skim over the original ceiling? it is easy cheap, causes minimal damage to original fabric and will look like a ceiling.

 

[MatthewC]

Tongue and groove over would be a total pain to do, and the result may not have wide appeal.

That's a very restrained comment, PP! You certainly need to think about the finish of T&G if you must use it. Most woodstain looks awful across a ceiling.

 

[Abi Cott]

Tongue and groove over would be a total pain to do, and the result may not have wide appeal.

That's a very restrained comment, PP! You certainly need to think about the finish of T&G if you must use it. Most woodstain looks awful across a ceiling.

I've got a friend with a wood clad ceiling that was disastrous orange pine stain about 20 years ago. 20 years with a wood burner in the room has mellowed it to an acceptable hue. The nice thing about wood, even stained wood is that it mellows with age. I believe his ceiling was dressed that way for much the same reason as the OP. It was damaged lath and plaster with delightful polystyrene tiles. He's a woodworker so a wood solution made sense and for someone with limited DIY skills it's probably easier to get right than board and skim. I've skimmed a ceiling. It's hard work, even for someone moderately good at basic plastering.

 

[MikeG]

Painted matching board on a ceiling can look absolutely beautiful. I've seen it a number of times in ancient buildings, and in new extensions done in traditional ways. A farmhouse in the Peak District, for instance, has a new extension with exposed oak bridging joist with secondary joists in the traditional manner, then matching board laid over the top of that, painted. It is reminiscent of seeing the underside of floorboards, which was common practise. I wouldn't be so quick as some to dismiss the idea. I'm pretty sure that directly above the matching is plasterboard, for fire and sound deadening, then a services gap and then the upstairs floor.......but I wasn't involved in detailing this.

With any design decision, the key is the detail and particularly the finish. Having a flat ceiling of nothing but matching board might be a bit much. Varnishing it, or staining it, would just make you feel like you stepped into the 1970's, or the inside of a sauna. But painted, and particularly if there is something else up there that grabs the eye first, it really can look very nice indeed.

One issue I would point out with matching board, which is essentially just a very thin (9 or 12mm) pine T&G, is that it readily cups. You can help avoid this by leaving it to acclimatise for a number of weeks in the room in which it is to be fitted, and by running shallow relieving cuts along the back of the board with a circular saw (along the length of the board).

 

[88v8]

Not having seen the kitchen I have no view of the aesthetics, except that as with any job the devil is in the detail especially around the borders which can end up looking a real amateurish mess, but If you are going to use new tg, paint or stain the tongue of each piece before you put it up.
Otherwise, when it shrinks, which it will, it will show bare wood.

Ivor

 

[JBean]

Have you rejected plasterboard and skim over the original ceiling? it is easy cheap, causes minimal damage to original fabric and will look like a ceiling.

Just butting in on this thread. We have a lathe and lime plaster ceiling on our landing into which someone has inserted about 8 spotlights :evil: - plus we have had three leaks which have left the ceiling paper rather stained and coming unstuck here and there (although the plaster itself has remained admirably firm despite being sopping wet for several days).

We'd like to make good the damage and replace the spots with 'proper' lights. I had not thought that an option was simply to board and skim over the original ceiling, leaving it there for any future owner who felt up to restoring the lathes. Are there any big disadvantages in this approach - or any firm advice I need to give my competent builder, who is not a fan of lime and would probably rip the original ceiling off if I let him?

 

[MikeG]

Downsides are few, and upsides many. It leaves intact original parts of the building, and it saves the most god-awful mess. One downside is obviously that headroom is reduced slightly, which can be an issue in some circumstances.

 

[JBean]

Mike, thanks. That's excellent news. We have tall Edwardian ceilings so headroom is not an issue.

 

[MikeG]

Mike, thanks. That's excellent news. We have tall Edwardian ceilings so headroom is not an issue.

Any mouldings, cornicing, coving?

 

[JBean]

We have a picture rail, but no coving on the landing. We have lots elsewhere so don't know if it's been removed at some point. Picture attached - shows the horrid spots and a bit of a sense of the damage to the paper.

 

[El Greyo]

Thanks everyone for your comments and opinions. All welcome.

In response to a few comments. No, we haven't rejected plaster board and skim. It would be cheaper in material, certainly, but both my wife and I are rubbish at plastering with gypsum so we'd have to get plasterer to do it. Whereas the tongue and groove is something I can put up and would actually quite enjoy (even when I'm swearing at an awkward corner, I'm enjoying it deep down (or so I try to tell myself)). It's an old cottage with no straight lines or right angles and I am well aware how difficult it is at the edges but I'm reasonably competent at scribing and woodworking and quite relish the challenge. I did the living room ceiling by filling in between joists with tongue and groove and, despite none of the joists being straight, I'm pleased with the results.

Mike is right; we would be painting it. I agree that varnished or stained wood isn't the look we're after. There is a beam running across the centre of the ceiling which would break up the expanse a bit. If I can remember how, I'll try to post a few photos later.

We haven't made any decisions yet but are considering the options. Before we do anything, we'll be speak to an electrician - as well as downlights, we'll be getting the kitchen rewired and it's an opportunity to create a space to hire the cables which at the moment are all exposed.