Windows to be split by floor/ceiling

[fatsheep]

Good morning.

My grade 2, very primative methodist chapel (no churchy features to speak of see http://s249630285.websitehome.co.uk/images/chapel.gif ) will need a ground floor ceiling/first floor floor adding.

Windows on the back wall would be split by the new floor apx 2 foot from the top, this is not an appealing idea. They will be Georgian Sash to match ther ones at the front and replace the current rubbish casements. Splitting them would mean having 2/3rds of a window downstairs which would meet the ceiling directly. Upstairs a third of the window would sit around our feet. In both cases the panes of the 6 over 6 sash would be further divided by the floor. If the floor runs flush up to the window I can't see how I can open the sash from downstairs as it will hit the ceiling as I lift it.
From the outside the look of the windows will be spoilt as they will have an artificial division and folks will have a view of my floor joists.

Planning are not keen at all on me dropping the windows.
I can't raise the floor/ceiling any more as we would be banging into the roof beams.

Has anyone any suggestions as to how to make the splitting of the windows work/look nice. Anyone know of any pictures out there where it's been done and looks ok?

Cheers David

 

[beka]

Could you create a gallery floor? so stop the actual dividing floor about 4ft short of the windows and add a railing, you'll then get a double height space at the back of the house, overlooked by a galleried landing with upper rooms leading off it.

That way you don't have to split the windows at all, only problem is it will leave you with less space upstairs (allowing min 4ft for void and 3 ft for landing)

 

[fatsheep]

Thanks Beka,
Won't work I'm afraid as that would knock out our bedroom and bathroom, its not a very big house.
Thanks for the thought though, any more?

David Goff

 

[MdB]

Just thinking aloud here. How about having the floor finish 300mm to 500mm away from the window and then fill the gap with a steel plate or similar? You would still be able to see the floor joists from outside but as they were further away they would be less obtrusive. The end on view of the steel plate shouldn't be too bad, especially if it lined up with glazing bars in the window. It should also allow a bit more light downstairs. Structurally, it may be difficult though.

 

[fatsheep]

MdB
Thanks for the thought. I've been to look at a simular idea at a conversion near me this afternoon. They used a form of glass as the last bit of "Flooring" above the window. It allowed a bit more light in but didn't look good inside and from outside looked frankly awful.
Their window was never designed to open either.

I've searched the web for pictures of a sash bisected by a floor with no luck. So I'm still looking for suggestions.

Perhaps I need to go back to tryiong for LBC on lowering the windows thus preserving their integrity. Any thought anyone?

 

[FamilyWiggs]

Going wacky here, but it may be better than the split window dilemma...

How about a transparent floor for the last say 1 foot to the window? Not sure of the feasibility, but again it would help avoid the jarring image of the window meeting the ceiling/floor.

 

[DaveBrigg]

I've just done a quick google of 'chapel conversion sale', which brings up a number of converted chapels for sale, most with internal pictures. There are a couple here to start with http://www.barnsetc.co.uk/ A lot seem to be bigger than yours, allowing space for the galleried landing as suggested earlier, but one or two are creative with the stairs, if it is possible to have them at the same end as the windows.
Another site - http://www.property.org.uk/unique/ch.html has this solution of what looks to be a recess in the floor/ceiling in front of the window. I assume there is a cunning design upstairs to stop someone getting out of bed the wrong side and falling through the gap.

 

[Anys9]

This is a photo of the top of the cart door window in the first floor main bedroom of our barn conversion. This window doesn't open and goes to the floor with no gap. Maybe it is not the sort of thing you are looking for. There are windows that open on the other side of the room. The reveal is quite thick and we are probably going to fit curtains close to the window. We are also considering that film that goes on the window to prevent anyone looking in during the daytime, not that it needs it as the barn is so remote, although the postman visits.

 

[fatsheep]

Thanks Guys,
I really appreciate the effort.

Dave, I too found the first site. I can't help thinking that it is suggestive that most of the pictures of rooms with split windows in keep them rather hidden away from view.

In the photo I think the folks have done a decent job, helped by their white interior. I wonder if they can watch each other cooking from above?

We have two windows that would need to be split which I guess would add a certain ammount of symmetry.


Anys, those are lovely beams.

I think the upstairs is less problematical than downstairs, as upstairs we can call a small, low window a querky feature.

I guess I'd be more accepting of the split window if I couldn't see that by lowering the windows the house would have better proportions and sashes that worked.

Cheers
David Goff

 

[chuckey]

As no one is going to stand right next to the glass, the load bearing aspect of the floor can be ignored? I would take the floor right up to the window allowing 1/4" for a dust seal strip. The underneath I would basicaly swing two arcs, say 18" radius with their centres on the window corners. From these marked out arcs and the straight line in between, the ceiling is going to taper upwards to a finished thickness of 1/2" and be finished in a pseudo moulding to match some other downstairs feature. - two fielded panel with petals either side?, shallow relief plaster castings of cornucopias?, straight beaded design?, shallow relief moulding of you and your loved ones?. You pays ya money. . .
Frank

 

[L1zzy]

I can't offer a solution though I really would try anything than to split the windows - you'll lose such features and light. BUT I remember this problem on one of the last series of Grand Designs - might be worth checking out the net on this - even in the series before last there was a chapel conversion somewhere in rural Wales I think - it was a good conversion so that might have some ideas - gawd it must be such a common problem others must have wrestled with.

 

[Anita]

To get over the problem of the sashes not being able to slide - why not have the window made to look like one, but to actually be 2 x yorkshire sliding sashes on top of one another. They could then slide sideways rather than up and down and probably not look too different.

Given that these windows are to be on the back of the house, they shouldn't be too noticeably different from the others.