Window proportions ideas

[CHRIS]

I have a 1820 mid terrace which in 1960s had some large pine windows fitted into the front of it, they must had knocked out the original window (next door has a 2 over 2 sash) and put in a very large modern one in the front with a width of 170cm wide x 140cm high with one side opening casement. they really looks naff as they have been left to rot since they were installed and 2 of the row of 4 houses have got nice sash ones in that have been looked after and fixed when needed and I am envious.

Would it be easier to make a replacement sash with side lights to give the illusion of the correct proportions or fit a narrower one with correct proportions and brick up the sides (house is rendered) only this will loose some extra light into front room.

The house is not listed but is in a conservation area, I tried the CO but did not get much luck and building control just said about regs and FENSA tickets etc

All ideas are welcome as I want to change them but dont know how!

 

[Penners]

In your situation, I would definitely want to reinstate the window to match the original ones that your neighbours have, and make the good the oversize window reveal. However, I'm not sure whether you'll run into any problems with the building regs.

Would the original size of window have a glass area equal to 10% of the floor space of the room?

And I don't know whether being in a conservation area would qualify you to have the thermal insulation requirements waived.

Do you know whether the new, naff window was installed before or after conservation area status was established? I suspect this may be relevant.

 

[biffvernon]

A picture would be helpful.

 

[Nemesis]

I think the CO may not be able to control building control... if there is no Article 4 etc it's very difficult really.

 

[CHRIS]

When daylight falls on Essex I will get a picture and also one of nextdoors. The window was installed before it became a conservation area and it is not quite 10% of floor size of the room.

I am sure they want double glazing in all new windows especially as Uttlesford was the largest CO2 producer per household in the country!!! Urm I wonder if that large strip of tarmac soon to be 2 about 10miles away has anything to do with that!!!

http://www.planestupid.com/

 

[Nemesis]

Ah - Uttlesford.

Hmmm.


I suggest yu try hard to pin down your CO.

 

[CHRIS]

Here are a few pictures of the windows, as you can see the end 2 terraces have sashes but mine has the large picture window. As I understand the windows were retro fitted later in life on that side of the buildings as he original entrance was on the other side of the row facing down to the town.

http://picasaweb.google.com/chrisjamesgill/CRUMBYWINDOWS.

The window size is 180 x 120 cm.

I wil try again to track the CO down and ask what she thinks.

thanks for your help

 

[Nemesis]

Yes something needs doing I agree! The end house sashes look good, but I note they are different sizes and it's a 'mixed' terrace so what you do doesn't have to be a slavish copy I feel.

Lucky that it's all rendered, as that makes life easier.

I'd certainly consider a sash with two fixed lights downstairs, if you are concerned about light, with singles upstairs, matching the end house is size?

 

[biffvernon]

Here's one I made earlier with dimensions about the same as yours. The central section is a pair of vertically sliding top hung sashes, the sections either side are fixed. Oak framed, exterior painted with linseed oil paint, double glazed units with centre pane U-value of about 1.4

 

[Nemesis]

Here's pics of originals, with useful info:

http://www.buildingconservation.com/articles/sashwindows/sashwindows.htm

 

[Nemesis]

An alternative is a double sash.



[Open Image] [Hosted by PhotoGalaxy.com]

 

[Penners]

Here are a few pictures of the windows

Chris - I see that the Google site where you have posted your pictures has a link marked "report inappropriate content". Does your window qualify...? :wink:

 

[biffvernon]

Here's pics of originals, with useful info:

http://www.buildingconservation.com/articles/sashwindows/sashwindows.htm

On the right, a well-painted window, showing reasonable overpainting of the glass. On the left, a similar example, but here the painter did not understand the difference between the frame and the sash: there is an arbitrary line across the top of the muntins (which are in the same plane as the other outer linings). He has also not returned the frame colour round the lining returns, which has resulted in a slightly insubstantial appearance.

Yes, I kind of agree, but I do think there is just too much white paint in the world. A really dark green would look a treat.

Anyway, I suspect these two are a good bit taller than Chris's 120mm so this design does not quite work in his situation.

 

[CHRIS]

Many thanks for the pictures etc, I have seen a water colour of the row and at one point in time the house was (in the pic anyway) white with dark green gutters and windows and it looked great, I saw a house in Montgomery on the Welsh border whilst on a work trip last month with a very dark blue sash which i liked - and yes there is too much white in this planet. A lovely weatherboard house near me has just had a nice lick of gloss white but the painter missed the top of the gable as his ladder was not long enough - it is truly nasty!!!!

Penners - how right you are!

Biff - What glass do you use in your windows?

 

[biffvernon]

Biff - What glass do you use in your windows?

My favourite is Tatra Glass's 'P1'. It's a very clear, iron free, hand made, mouth blown cylinder glass from Poland, about 3mm thick with gentle wobbles and occasional reams. The 'P3' is similar but a warm amber tint that gives a wonderfully rich subdued light.

Of course if you want to be practical then Pilkington K is a hard coated low-emissivity float glass, relatively cheap and does the job of keeping you warm. More expensive is Pilkington Optitherm. This is a soft coat low-e float glass that gives even lower effective U-values and is clearer than Pilk K. St Gobain do similar coated glasses but my local supplier doesn't stock them, though I'm sure they are just as good.

Of course the best glass is stuff you've recycled out of someone's old thrown away window because it's free and involves no nurther embodied energy (save a little elbow grease to clean it).

The very dark green paint, a chrome based pigment invented in the early 19th century, was sometimes called 'invisible green' because it made glazing bars and iron railings appear allmost invisible.

 

[Lime]

The very dark green paint, a chrome based pigment invented in the early 19th century, was sometimes called 'invisible green' because it made glazing bars and iron railings appear allmost invisible.

I remember noticing that effect as a child on glazing bars.
The colour was quite common after the war but I never really liked it to look at.
I liked to paint with very dark green, it covered everything and was usually quite gooey and soft for months.

I've had some new sash windows built for my extension. The glazier came yesterday and made the cave into a room.
I painted them with undercoat prior to fitting and found I had a group of builders looking at this paint as if it was from another world.
It wasn't brilliant white it was cream and they behaved as if they'd never seen the colour before.
I suppose that is how you get when you live in a brilliant white world.

 

[biffvernon]

Your old paint that stayed gooey for months was probably linseed oil paint without the manganese driers that are often included nowadays. Even with the siccative it takes a long time to to go hard in cool weather.

If you look at old photos you can often see that only a small proportion of windows were painted white in the 19th century and it was only after the second World War that white became ubiquitous. This was when titanium oxide pigment replaced lead carbonate. TiO2 gives the 'Brilliant White' that we have come to regard as normal. Not only is it brighter than lead it suffers less from the yellowing that was characteristic of lead pigment when subjected to an atmosphere rich in sulphur.

 

[plumbers mate]

I hate white paint - it needs cleaning too often as it shows the dirt.
It often ends up cream anyway so I use cream to start with. My Mother always had "County Cream" paint work for the same reason.
The living room in my house (ie the front upstairs room which is the full width of the house - aka the Drawing Room) had three different colours of cream on the door.
Usual 4 panel victorian internal door - the panels were one colour cream, the beading another and the rest of the door yet another - all the same era and there doesn't seem another coat of paint below any of them.
It is perfectly possible that they were like me and wanted to use up the odds and ends of paint but I prefer to think that they were being a bit arty.