Why we should think....Part 2

[tom.harrigan]

The images shows the current amount of sea ice (the purple bit!) A record* GAIN this year.

Discussion to be found nowhere.

Funny how some records* are considered thought provoking, while others are ignored!

T

*record is defined as since about 1979.
source: http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/

 

[Nemesis]

Odd cos this week I read something which didn't seem to suggest a record gain. There seemed to be some cause for concern in fact.

For those of us with visual problems however, it's useful to know what the purple bit is.

I gather, Tom, you have a bit of a bee in your bonnet? Not turning into a zealot are you (perish the thought...)?

 

[tom.harrigan]

Antarctic sea ice area reached 16.2 million squared kilometers in 2007 - a new absolute record* high.

I prefer this representation of the record* anyway:

It is my mission to bring balance to unbalanced minds.

*record means since 1979ish, just like the other sea ice records*

 

[Nemesis]

Well, not sure really I think you are too balanced. But they say it takes a fruit loop to spot another, so there you go.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2007/sep/05/climatechange.sciencenews

That's the bad news.

And here are lots of charts and pretty colours too:

http://www.clivar.org/organization/southern/SO_3rdmeeting/Speer.ppt#260,13,Slide 13

 

[biffvernon]

Ah, the Antarctic.

Widespread acceleration of tidewater glaciers on the Antarctic Peninsula
Pritchard, H., and D. G. Vaughan (2007)
J. Geophys. Res., 112, doi:10.1029/2006JF000597

Hundreds of glaciers on the Antarctic Peninsula are flowing faster, further adding to sea-level rise. Climate warming, that is already causing Antarctic Peninsula increased summer snow melt and ice shelf retreat, is the most likely cause.

Using radar images acquired by European ERS-1 and ERS-2 satellites, we tracked the flow rate of over 300 previously unstudied glaciers. We found a 12% increase in glacier speed from 1993 to 2003. These observations - that echo recent findings from coastal Greenland - indicate that the cause is melting of the lower glaciers, which flow directly into the sea. As they thin, the buoyancy of the ice can lift the glaciers off their rock beds, allowing them to slide faster. These results show that the Antarctic Peninsula is currently contributing about as much to sea level rise as Alaska, and that Antarctica as a whole is now a net source of sea level rise.

In February this year, the United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) reported that they could not provide an upper limit on the rate of sea-level rise from Antarctica in coming centuries because of a lack of understanding of the dynamics of the large ice sheets. These results demonstrate that glacier dynamic effects are likely to be a key control on sea level. They pave the way for more reliable projections of future sea level and provide a better basis for policy decisions.

http://www.antarctica.ac.uk/about_bas/publications/month/paper.php?id=18

 

[tom.harrigan]

This is hilarious! Yes it is the south pole! My subtle paraphrasing of another post on another thread seems to have gone over certain people's heads. The clue being in the subject!

The next amusing thing is anticipated quote from a paper that has been neither read nor understood. The Pavlovian response of desperate Googling for anything that might seem to support a catastrophic alarmist view, is magnificent in its predictability.

Unfortunately for Biff, the Antarctic Peninsula is not Antarctica. It's a bit like comparing Cornwall to the UK, only worse. The Antarctic Peninsula comprises the only part of Antarctica to extend beyond the antarctic circle, and makes up ~5% of it's area.

I consider it hypocrisy to promote this years arctic record* as thought provoking, while trying to disparage this year's antarctic record*, particularly as they are from the same source.

* "records" began in 1979!

 

[Nemesis]

Actually Tom we aren't the **** wits you think, and maybe should realise that.

Subtle? Think sledgehammer.

Yes we do realise this is the south pole, and, surprise surprise, recall the other thread.

Glad you are enjoying yourself so much though. Just don't wet your pants laughing. As you are such a major expert, possibly you can point us to your published or indeed unpublished research?

I'm concerned about the other report I posted a link to. Not great, is it?

Anyhow - this site is about period property, and how world events affect that is maybe how we should go from here, instead of you trying to belittle Biff.

 

[Penners]

The images shows the current amount of sea ice (the purple bit!) A record* GAIN this year.

Oh no.....

Global Freezing Warning - World Doomed!

I can't take much more of this. I'm going to emigrate. I hear Europa is nice at this time of year.

 

[Nemesis]

Europa? Wasn't that a car?


[Open Image] [Hosted by PhotoGalaxy.com]

 

[skier-hughes]

Such a superb car that Lotus. I had an Elan series 3 from the same era, magnificent in the dry, dangerous as hell in the wet

 

[Nemesis]

Well, tyres have improved these days you realise!

 

[MdB]

Unfortunately, Europa the place has an average temperature of 105K which is a little chilly for my taste.

 

[Nemesis]

Bit like oop north in January really.

 

[Craig]

Friend of mine was MD of Lotus and he hets v annoyed that people called the Eclat an "eh-klat" rather than "Eh-clar". Serves them right for trying to be all posh.

 

[Nemesis]

Never been the same since Chapman died of course.

 

[Penners]

Unfortunately, Europa the place has an average temperature of 105K

At this time of year it warms up to a balmy 106K. Nice bit of oxygen in the atmosphere, and bags of ice skating to be had.

 

[biffvernon]

Careful Tom, I do sometimes read scientific papers and I do sometimes understand them. It kind of comes with being a scientist for a few decades. As you doubtless know, the Arctic and Antarctic sea ice forms in very different geographic environments, one an ocean surrounded by land, the other an ocean fringing a continent.

While Arctic sea ice is at a record low there has, indeed been an increase in Antarctic sea ice in recent years, but the extent is very variable from year to year and the increase is generally regarded as statistically insignificant. Some climate scientists have predicted that Antarctic sea ice should increase with global warming and models suggest that a decrease in temperature is to be expected in the central Antarctic.

But what matters to those of us who live close to sea level is what is happening on the Antarctic Peninsular and the WAIS.

Perhaps, Tom, you would care to read some of the educational material on the National Snow and Ice Data Centre website, this page for instance.

 

[Nemesis]

Well, I'm still just as concerned about the other place - and I do know my **** from my elbow, my Arctic from my Antarctic, just wondered, now that Tom has sorta raised the matter again, what he made of it?

(Or is the Groan a biased source, as with the BBC?)

 

[biffvernon]

And this page, entitled Characteristics: Arctic vs. Antarctic is an excellent introduction to the differences between sea ice, north and south, but Tom may have seen it already since it is where the graph he posted came from.

 

[Nemesis]

But of course, he didn't find it by googling, but because he has read all there is to know on the subject?