Where can I see a lime rendered, lime-washed building?

[JoceAndChris]

I mean properly see one and touch one, not just a photo.

My own cement rendered building remains an ongoing problem. I'd tackle the cement myself but at this stage Chris won't let me. It's very firmly attached.

I see that E. Bowman of Stamford are currently working on Walpole's Strawberry Hill in Twickenham. A representative of this company came across as unutterably perfect when I was getting quotes for the work last summer. He made all the right oohing and ahhing noises about the cottage, and even said he'd be reluctant to take on some of the jobs I enquired about, such as the laying on of new stone treads and risers for the very worn stone steps, as it did not fit their conservationist ethos. The quote, when it came through, was eye watering though. £165 per square metre- to remove the render, make good the stone, repoint with lime and lime render - not including the painting. We've got about 142 square metres. That's £23,430 excluding VAT. Any thoughts on that quotation?

 

[Flyfisher]

That's £23,430 excluding VAT. Any thoughts on that quotation?

Only that you could 'earn' yourself £23,430 +VAT by doing the job yourself.

You can see loads of lime-rendered/limewashed buildings in Lavenham, but there must surely be places closer to you.

 

[JoceAndChris]

Oh, I'd love to see Lavenham again - it's years since I was there.

There's a lot of stone round here, brick, and cement. I've tried to spot lime but haven't so far.

Only that you could 'earn' yourself £23,430 +VAT by doing the job yourself.

That really is my thought too, pity I can't get Chris to agree but he'll have to come round to my way of thinking in the end as we don't have £23,430 + VAT sat in the bank for this. We didn't buy the cottage thinking such major work would be necessary.

I got cheaper quotes, but, sorry for how arrogant this sounds, ended up thinking the cheaper builders were only marginally more well-equipped to do the job than me.

 

[Penners]

You can see loads of lime-rendered/limewashed buildings in Lavenham

Including, of course, the famous Guildhall - possibly my mostest favourite building in the galaxy:

 

[Juju]

Again, too far away from you in Lincolnshire but someone I know in Witney removed the cement render from his and his neighbour's properties. I think he and his partner took just a few days to do the job once the scaffolding was up. He then got a specialist lime plastering company in to do the render. He then limewashed it and it looks great. He might be prepared to share info on how much it cost although that would just be the rendering as obviously he did everything else himself. Interestingly he's just set up his own building company.

 

[Penners]

Juju - any chance of a photo of that?

 

[philpjuk100]

Ah Lavenham guildhall,wonderful,must go there again and to the cafe that sells home made honey icecream! phil.

 

[Gareth Hughes]

Here: http://www.lincolnshire.gov.uk/section.asp?sectiontype=listmixed&catid=9922

 

[kevmiles1]

You quote for a £165 per sq metre is a ridiculous price even if it is 3 coat lime work and limewashed with at least four coats and includes all materials scaffolding and limewash.
An average price depending on which part of the country is around half that between £60.00-£80.00 per square metre, central London you may pay upto £140.00 so I would shop around, you could even get someone from not in your area (if there is a shortage of specailists) and including there accomodation you would get it done with a fair bit of change from that bill.

 

[Gervase]

Agreed. It's the sort of quote you get from someone who doesn't really want to do the work but lobs in a silly sum just in case.
For that price I'd do the work and cook for you!

 

[JoceAndChris]

Oh, don't tempt me - how's your hollandaise sauce?

But are you boys taking into account the nebulous "make good the stone" bit of that quote, not something you'd be able to predict too well as it would all depend how the render came off?

Here: http://www.lincolnshire.gov.uk/section.asp?sectiontype=listmixed&catid=9922

Wonderful, thankyou. It opens in April - not too long to wait now for the new season of nosying about to start.

Again, too far away from you in Lincolnshire but someone I know in Witney removed the cement render from his and his neighbour's properties. I think he and his partner took just a few days to do the job once the scaffolding was up. He then got a specialist lime plastering company in to do the render. He then limewashed it and it looks great. He might be prepared to share info on how much it cost although that would just be the rendering as obviously he did everything else himself. Interestingly he's just set up his own building company.

Thaks Juju - it's a good way of cutting the cost. Don't trouble your neighbour on what it cost him for my sake I really need to get some more quotes on this.

 

[BMcD]

JoceAndChris wrote:

The quote, when it came through, was eye watering though. £165 per square metre- to remove the render, make good the stone, repoint with lime and lime render - not including the painting. We've got about 142 square metres. That's £23,430 excluding VAT. Any thoughts on that quotation?

Seems a little steep to me, I done a job not long ago in Warwickshire of 3 coat lime render (scratch coat, float coat and 6mm through colour, premixed top coat, no need to paint) Total area was 200m.sq. and the price was around £15000.00 including materials. Admittedly all previous pebble dash was all hacked off. Also, why does it need repointing if it's being rendered? mortar joints should be raked out to give a better key. Furthermore, are you and he already aware of the amount of stone to be repaired?if not then how can he quote for a repair when he doesn't know the extent of the damage? and will you get a discount if no stone repair is required? This sort of thing should be down as an extra, negotiated at a day rate or a seperate job once you know the full extent of the problem, if any.

This is what was used for the top coat I mentioned (others are available)
http://www.stastier.co.uk/nhl/data/ecomort.htm

You may want to look here to find others to quote (they should all be moe than happy to give references)
http://www.plaistererslivery.co.uk/directory.aspx

Hope this helps

 

[Flyfisher]

But are you boys taking into account the nebulous "make good the stone" bit of that quote, not something you'd be able to predict too well as it would all depend how the render came off?

Given that the job is to remove cement render and replace with lime render/limewash then I'm not really sure what "make good the stone" will mean in practice, other than roughly patch up any damage caused by the cement removal. Indeed, given that the walls will be re-rendered, you may wish to discuss the proposed method for removing the cement mortar. I wouldn't be surprised if they plan to at it with big SDS drills and/or kango hammers on the the basis that it will do a fast job and any damage to the underlying stone won't matter because it won't be visible when lime-rendered anyway.

You, of course, might have a different view, which could be a recipe for some unfortunate dispute unlesss the methodology is fully discussed beforehand.

 

[JoceAndChris]

This is what was used for the top coat I mentioned (others are available)
http://www.stastier.co.uk/nhl/data/ecomort.htm

You may want to look here to find others to quote (they should all be moe than happy to give references)
http://www.plaistererslivery.co.uk/directory.aspx

Hope this helps

It does, thanks very much indeed for that most useful post.

Given that the job is to remove cement render and replace with lime render/limewash then I'm not really sure what "make good the stone" will mean in practice,

I wonder how flat and smooth the walls need to be for lime render? There are a lot of sharp right angles here on corners - angles that will be a lot less sharp after the cement's been hacked off I fear.

You remember this picture of the corner I exposed?

You're right though, it seems a little excessive to hire a top stonemason to repair walls that will then be covered up. But what do I know?

Indeed, given that the walls will be re-rendered, you may wish to discuss the proposed method for removing the cement mortar.

Do you mean render? The mortar between the stones underneath the render is just sand. I've tried to get the render off using all sorts of things, the only one I had any success with was the SDS drill - and even then, not easy at all.

 

[Gervase]

Ouch! Please, put that SDS breaker away immediately. :shock:
The stones in that picture clearly show recent and severe mechanical damage. You can see the white staining where the cement was, but the stones on the corner are showing bright yellow, freshly-fractured faces. I'm afraid that's the direct consequence of going at it with a breaker (the name should be a warning in itself!). It is possible to remove render and preserve the arris, but you do have to be careful and you must use the right tools with the right application, otherwise making good is going to cost a heck of a lot more.

Seriously - trade in the SDS breaker and get some smoke alarms with the cash!

 

[Flyfisher]

Joce - yes, I meant cement render, not mortar. Apologies for the confusion.

Gervase - I agree entirely. I wasn't trying to suggest that large breakers were the appropriate way to get the cement render off those walls. I was trying to point out that someone given the job to remove the cement render and then re-render with lime might not care too much about the condition they left the underlying walls given that it would just be re-rendered. I think it would be wise to discuss such things before the work started.

 

[JoceAndChris]

Ouch! Please, put that SDS breaker away immediately. :shock:
The stones in that picture clearly show recent and severe mechanical damage. You can see the white staining where the cement was, but the stones on the corner are showing bright yellow, freshly-fractured faces. I'm afraid that's the direct consequence of going at it with a breaker (the name should be a warning in itself!). It is possible to remove render and preserve the arris, but you do have to be careful and you must use the right tools with the right application, otherwise making good is going to cost a heck of a lot more.

Seriously - trade in the SDS breaker and get some smoke alarms with the cash!

OK.