when to bring in the authorities

[charlie-ia]

hello, me again!

assuming all goes well, we pick up the keys soon.

1, would we need to get builders in for quotes? this sounds daft i know.(and yes NT, youve found me out, i do like to complicate the simple!)

the whole house needs doing. do we just point a builder at the wall and a joiner at the door and armed with the surveyors report, get them to make a long list of everything.( i really mean everything needs doing)

they then give us a fixed quote right?

they wouldnt do this for free would they?
or to get someone you trust you'd have to pay?
or its up to us to instruct him the on the seperate tasks we'd like doing.


2. we take the fixed quote and attatched list and do the work ourselves.

this sounds mean. or embarasing when we have to get him back to sort out our mess. and if he did the whole survey for free and we drag him out on a stormy night to sort some minor emergency he might put a rat in our watertank.

do you think if we think we're capable of doing the work, then we should be capable of knowing what work needs doing?(what if we forget something vital! )
this waiting for the keys game is no fun. once we get started im sure it'll be fine, but at the moment its quite daunting.

3. we dont want to change the house, just repair. it isnt listed but is in a sensitive area. so we phone the planning department for a friendly chat before we start work.
im unsure how good an idea this is. im sure if it was listed that would be the best thing to do. i imagine a freindly chat could get you ravled in horrific red tape, and if youd just done the work youd'v been fine.

4. where can i find what i need to know about project planning?

thoughts and advice frome everyone welcome

 

[DaveBrigg]

With the benefit of hindsight...
Get a pretty good idea of what you want doing before inviting people in for quotes. E.g. which walls exactly need replastering, will the ceilings need doing, and if so, will you be plasterboarding? What quality of finish do you want? Will they be able to sort out any small patches of brickwork that need attention?
Then, invite them round, one at a time, and go through your plans in full. If they are any good they will probably suggest whether more or less needs doing than you planned, and offer advice.
Ask for a quote to be itemised into smaller sections, e.g. cost of plastering each room, so that you can decide how much work you want / can afford. Knowing the cost of materials and labour is also useful if you plan to do some of the work yourself. You may also be able to supply the materials yourself cheaper, and just buy in their skill. (Some tradesmen charge a mark-up on materials, which covers the cost and inconvenience of making sure that they are on site on time)
If people want the work, they will quote. If they do not want the work they may visit and never be heard from again, or may refuse to come at all. If they quote, they know that they may not get the job. Ask about possible time frames as well - can you wait six months until their next three jobs are finished?
Without detailed instructions, the quotes will be difficult to compare, and you may find yourself at the end expecting certain jobs to be covered that weren't quoted for. E.g. does the reroofing include bargeboards?
Also check whether the quote includes VAT!
I must admit to feeling a bit guilty about taking up an hour of someone's time for a quote, plus the effort involved in pricing it up and typing it out, only to go elsewhere, but at the end of the day you need to get what is best for your house. Rest assured that somewhere along the line, if you get someone in, the price they charge will recompense them for other quotes they gave that were not taken up. All you can be is fair - if you have a fixed budget, say so. If they have to be available in two weeks time, let them know straight off in case this is an issue. Tell them if you plan to do some of the work yourself, and they can just quote for the extra.
We were lucky in finding a conservation building firm which had expertise in different areas, so they were happy to advise which timbers needed replacing, how to repair the brickwork and what to do about the damp, but had enough on their plates to be happy for me to do what I could alongside them.
The whole process may take weeks, so I'd start ASAP.
Good luck.

 

[Gervase]

Terrified? of course you are - other than having kids, waiting to take possession of an old house in need of repair is possibly the most stressful thing imaginable.
Don't be daunted, though. Scores have done it; and the key to success is to be realistic. Double all estimates of costs and time, and develop a thick skin when t comes to contractors - there a scores who advertise 'renovation' but not many who apply sound conservation and restoration principles. But don't be afraid of bringing in a wide selection of possible contractors; no reputable builder should charge for a quote.
Dave's advice above is very sound - break things down as much as possible, and do check time frames and the VAT situation. Talk things over with your local Consrvation Officer if s/he's not already in the frame with the planners; they often know who's good and who to avoid, and if your work is largely repair rather than extension you have little to fear.
And don't allow yourself to be bullied by the contractors into compromising in terms of materials or techniques. Sometimes the contractor is right, but often objetions are raised because of unfamiliarity or sheer laziness. There are plenty of second and third opinions around, including here, so seek them if in doubt.
Good luck!

 

[NT]

Its not appropriate to involve planning dept if no planning issues are involved.

Quotes are free, but ensure its a quote not an estimate!


> would we need to get builders in for quotes?

If you want them to do some work, yes, if you're doing it yourself, no.

do we just point a builder at the wall and a joiner at the door and armed with the surveyors report, get them to make a long list of everything.( i really mean everything needs doing)

If you do they'll add in various stuff thats not needed.

The golden rule is that most builders seem to be bs merchants that will use any excuse to do work, even if damaging work, for the sake of your money. Thankfully not all are like that, but most it seems.


> or its up to us to instruct him the on the seperate tasks we'd like doing.

as you wish. If not a schedule of works, a list of what needs sorting would be a fine place to start from. That's where I'd start.


> 2. we take the fixed quote and attatched list and do the work ourselves.

sure you can, but if so then getting the quote didnt achieve much. Other than encouraging you to save a fortune doing it yourself.


> if he did the whole survey for free and we drag him out on a stormy night to sort some minor emergency he might put a rat in our watertank.

he just wouldnt come out.


> (what if we forget something vital! )

Builder will pick it up when surveying for the quote.


> i imagine a freindly chat could get you ravled in horrific red tape, and if youd just done the work youd'v been fine.

indeed, it can cost you many grand.


Beware of the old game of quoting for work with no written details, then when you want this & that doing they do it, but it all raises the price, since their quote was for the bare minimum, not for what you asked for and they verbally said they'd do. So you get a real shock at payment time.

The various accessories will be excluded from the quote too, unless it specifically includes them.

Also realise some extra jobs will crop up along the way


I suspect the outcome will be that your jaw falls off when you see the quote, and you decide to do everything yourself.

PS clearing any rubble/junk out the way first makes it poss to see more accurately what needs doing.


NT

 

[Nemesis]

Me, I'd spend some money on someone to plan and oversee such as an architect with conservation expertise. I am sure there are some surveyors capable of doing similar work. I'd be very wary of simply hiring builders without having a detailed schedule of all that you need doing. Some work is bound to require Building Control approval also.

 

[andrew gayton]

1) start at the top of the house and work down making a list of EVERYTHING that needs to be done
2) refine list to phase the works
3) subdivide to works that you can do and those that you will need to put out to others
4) think about the phasing of work i.e rewire before plastering etc etc
5) get prices for prioritised affordable maounts of work
6) don't panic
7) ticking off lists is a real pleaseure! make a big list and tape it to a wall in the kitchen, together with 'working sketches (whilst at work, on the loo, etc ideas for things will often be resolved mentally.... sketch and make notes)
8) think carefully about professional fee's.... they can really eat into a budget.
9) enjoy it
10) ask for advice here before doing (my woodwork teacher always said - measure twice cut once)
11) if a builder says 'i have been doing it this way for 30 years' assume that they have been doing it wrong for 30 years
12) read read read read and compare peoples vciews, thoughts and advice

 

[andrew gayton]

the smiley was supposed to be an 8

 

[Penners]

Lots of good advice above, but the way that you approach this project is ultimately down to your own realistic assessment of how much you feel able to do. And I'm not just talking about the work itself, but also the identification and planning for the work.

After all, if you don't recognise that a job needs doing, you're not going to do it.

In your shoes, I would approach the situation by adding together all of the excellent advice given above, to make a master plan:-

* Make a comprehensive list everything that needs doing.

* Think carefully about how confident you feel that you have properly identified all the necessary work. If you don't feel confident, then consider spending a few hundred pounds on getting a surveyor to check the property over and ensure that you haven't missed anything.

* Once you have your comprehensive list of what needs doing, consider what you feel able to tackle yourselves.

* Now you're in a position to talk to builders about quotes for the jobs you don't feel able to tackle. On the whole, you're probably better to take time to find yourselves a really good builder and to give him the whole (non-DIY) list. You'll be much more important to him if he gets a good share of work from you, rather than if you spread the individual jobs around various builders in dribs and drabs. He can also project-manage the work and ensure that - as Andrew has mentioned - you and he schedule the work properly.

* Finally, bear in mind what Gervase said above - everything will take longer and cost more than originally thought. That's how old properties are. For example, you start replacing an area of masonry and you find a rotted beam end. In repairing that you discover that a cable is frayed... and so on.

The project will be stressful, but it can also be immensely satisfying. Don't allow the scale of it to swamp you - allow yourself a feeling of "little victories" each time one part of it comes to an end.

Good luck!

 

[Jill]

- allow yourself a feeling of "little victories" each time one part of it comes to an end.

Even if it is only something small like removing a disgusting paint finish from a radiator!