What's the word for really wide (50-6-cm) oak planks?

[Minkeycat]

We're working on an idea to create a wall covering that will look like an old oak plank and muntin screen. This is to go on a fairly bland plasterboard wall to replace one that was apparently removed back in the 50s. The thing is, the other side of the plasterboard wall has kitchen cupboards attached to it so we don't want to replace the entire wall. We're thinking of covering the wall so it looks like a screen is there but I have no idea what to ask for at a timber yard. Planks seem to be for flooring, some wood is timber, some is structural, some is kiln dried, some is green etc. I only vaguely know the difference. I'm thinking wide oak 'planks' mounted vertically on the wall with narrower muntins over the joins can achieve the effect we want. We don't need 5cm thick slabs of oak that would have been used originally, just a fascia. I think this will ultimately look a whole lot nicer than it sounds! Can anyone tell me what the best wood to use would be? I have no problem sanding, planing and sawing wood but need to know what to use for this in terms of 'furniture quality oak', 'construction quality', slab/plank/green/brown etc

Any advice would be much appreciated.

 

[MikeG]

Boards.

You'll have the choice of waney-edged kiln dried "through & through"-cut timber at your local timber supplier in thicknesses from 18mm (3/4") up to 50mm (2"). There is a lot of wastage with these, as you have to cut off the wane and the sapwood, but you don't actually pay for this waste as the price is determined by the width of heartwood in the board. It is commonplace to find boards between 9" and 24" wide, and wider than this by special order. You'll generally find that 1" is cheaper than 3/4", so this is what I suggest you get. Remember, these boards will have a sawn finish, not planed, so if you want something a bit more sophisticated you are going to need access to a planer-thicknesser and a belt sander. If a rough-sawn finish is OK, then all you'll need are some basic tools and big muscles..............oak is damn heavy!

The likelihood is that you'll buy American White Oak (don't use red oak, whatever you do!). The grades are QB1, QB2 and QB3, with QB1 being the most knot & blemish free (which can make it quite dull), and QB3 having the most knots etc. Many timber merchants won't sell you QB3 as they like to prepare this for flooring (it makes the most attractive flooring). Ask for QB3, but settle for QB2 if you can't get it.

Obviously you need dried timber, not green.

Oh, and your wall sounds lovely......albeit expensive. The wider the boards you can buy, and the more varied, the better looking it will be. A run of uniform 6" wide stuff would look very modern and dull.

Whereabouts in the country are you? I can possibly recommend a merchant.

 

[Flyfisher]

I wouldn't worry too much about the proper word for such a thing (if there is one), just describe exactly what you're after.

However, I would say that 50-60 wide 'planks' of oak sounds quite a specialised requirement. I'm not expert enough to fully understand the sawing implications but it sounds tricky to me in terms of warping etc. I suppose something could be cut larger then seasoned then planed down but my eyes are already watering at the likely expense.

Also, in my limited knowledge of 'plank and muntin' walls, I've always thought of the planks being far smaller than 50-60cm in width and that such walls were typically constructed with close-studded timbers, leaving a much smaller gap between for the planks, making the sourcing of such planks somewhat easier. But I could very easily be completely wrong about that (and even if I'm right, that's no particular reason not to pursue your design idea).

A quick search found this, which illustrates what I mean, though I confess I didn't bother searching for examples using wider planks.
http://www.theporchhouse.com/html/plank_and_muntin_walls.html


Edit: MikeG already covered the timber specifics while I was typing

 

[Minkeycat]

MIkeG - thank you so much. I'm now feeling much more confident with what to expect at a timber yard.

We're in Devon these days and there's a timber yard not too far away that has a good reputation. I suspect we're being somewhat ambitious with this project but my wife came across this yesterday and we both started drooling at the prospect.

http://www.emanuelhendry.co.uk/projects-services/item/17/oak-screen

As I said, we want to achieve the effect using oak and we both love the colour of this one with the newer oak. We're erring more towards a sawn finish as too smooth would possibly look a little sophisticated for our house but we'll certainly go for a knottier and more interesting selection.

Flyfisher, Thank you too for your advice. Your links have demonstrated that we can go for narrower boards between the muntins which will help costs quite a bit. The links you attached show a beautiful screen adn the horizontal plank in the middle is very interesting although I'm not sure how 'traditional' that look is round here even though I'm sure there was no official plan and rules when these things were created.

We're rather excited about this now but we'll reign in the enthusiasm because I think when the cost becomes apparent, it may have to wait!

 

[MikeG]

Nice oak screen, although I would have done nicer chamfer stops, and I don't like extending chamfers cross-grain into a corner as the have done at the head.

Your wall is only going to be seen from one side, so it has no need of structural muntins. It need in fact be little more than hit-and-miss vertical boards, if detailed properly.

 

[Hobden]

The likelihood is that you'll buy American White Oak (don't use red oak, whatever you do!).

What's the problem with red oak?

 

[MikeG]

It's an entirely different thing. American white oak (AWO) is virtually indistinguishable from European (and English) oak, with the same grain, colouring, and medullary rays. It is perhaps slightly more uniform than European oak, which has a tendency to be slightly more uniform and straight growing than English oak. As I said, indistinguishable probably to anyone but a woodworker. Red oak (American red oak =ARO) is a different colour, has entirely different grain, no medullary rays, and is about as close to European oak as elm or walnut is. AWO takes a nice finish with oils, waxes, varnishes etc, but ARO just absorbs the stuff and looks flat and dull. Further, it is a non-durable wood. AWO and European oak will last centuries outside in the right circumstance. American red Oak is porous, absorbs water easily, and breaks down extremely quickly. It may even be less durable than untreated pine. Following a comment from a fellow woodworker, I once sucked some water up through a short length of red oak as though it were a straw!

This from a person who once bought an entire skip full of ARO*, and still has a few boards left of the damn stuff.

*OK, it only cost £25, but I'm not even sure that was a bargain.

 

[ChrisD]

With my limited knowledge of such things, I'd be inclined to look at one of the established oak framing companies e.g. http://www.oakmasters.co.uk
There are others that may also be able to help with decorative, internal features.
Regards,
Chris.

 

[MikeG]

Well that depends on your skill levels, and the amount of time you have. Doing that would turn the job into something really quite expensive, whereas it is actually within the compass of an experienced DIYer who has enough time and tools. It will need some careful thought about the design, of course, especially if there is a door involved. If it isn't to be a DIY job, a local carpenter with a decent drawing would be able to do the job perfectly well, and a deal cheaper than the timber framing companies would typically charge.

 

[Flyfisher]

I suspect we're being somewhat ambitious with this project but my wife came across this yesterday and we both started drooling at the prospect.

http://www.emanuelhendry.co.uk/projects-services/item/17/oak-screen

It is rather lovely, but then I love that sort of thing. Are those 'planks' really 50-60cm though? It's a little hard to tell from the photos, but I'd say they were somewhat thinner. My feeling is that the wider the planks the more it will look like wood panelling rather than a plank and muntin wall. Not a problem if that's what you're after, of course, but worth viewing as many examples as you can before finally deciding.

As I said, we want to achieve the effect using oak and we both love the colour of this one with the newer oak. We're erring more towards a sawn finish as too smooth would possibly look a little sophisticated for our house but we'll certainly go for a knottier and more interesting selection.

Not sure what you mean by 'sophisticated' but my feeling is that even in 'low status' houses, there would some effort to 'tidy up' the visible parts of the structure, if not with formal decoration then at least with refining the basic materials. Thus, smoothing and polishing the woodwork would surely be fairly instinctive, I'd have thought. Not that a roughly sawn finish might not be out of place these days in a 'trendy' restaurant or converted warehouse flat, but that's fashionistas for you. :lol:

We're rather excited about this now but we'll reign in the enthusiasm because I think when the cost becomes apparent, it may have to wait!

I suspect you're right about the cost, though waiting may not necessarily be a bad thing as it would give you time to research the options and define the small details that could make or break such a project. Might be worth visiting a few houses with such walls to have a look first hand to home in on the sorts of things you really like. The company in your link might be able to arrange a 'reference visit' for example. No harm in asking even if the answer is 'no'.

Good luck with it all.

 

[Minkeycat]

We've been along to the woodyard with measurements and a "back of an envelope" type drawing. They're now preparing a quote to supply AWO. I measured a few pictures of other screens and the boards seem to be double the width of the muntins so we asked for 30cm wide boards and 12cm 'muntins' which will overlap the boards by 3cm(ish). Even with the smaller boards, they did tell us to make sure we're sitting down when we open the quote!

As for the sawn appearance, I'm really just trying to avoid too flat a look or it would look like ply with an oak top layer so if there are a few saw marks in it that'll be fine. Here's the one in a local NT house that we saw at the weekend and that sparked the whole interest in reinstating the screen - the saw marks in this are visible and this is a grander house than ours! We're hoping for narrower boards.

 

[MikeG]

You most certainly don't need a 30mm lap. Half an inch a side will do fine. What thickness boards have you asked them to quote for?

Here's a tip. If you get a local joiner to obtain a quote for exactly the same quantity of timber they'll get it for 40, 50 or even 60% less than you. If you know anyone, now is the time to make a 'phone call.........

 

[Feltwell]

Expensive.

:wink:

 

[Minkeycat]

You most certainly don't need a 30mm lap. Half an inch a side will do fine. What thickness boards have you asked them to quote for?

Hi MikeG

Thanks again for that brilliant advice. I'll ask around to see if anyone's got an account there. Savings of those sizes would be very welcome! Also, a smaller overlap is going to help. I always tend to overdo but that'll allow narrower planks still which is a good thing.

They mentioned 1" thick boards when we were in there so I think that's what they'll quote for.

I don't think I'll be going for the renaissance style paintings on our screen as in the one posted!

 

[Owain]

This from a person who once bought an entire skip full of ARO*, and still has a few boards left of the damn stuff. *OK, it only cost £25, but I'm not even sure that was a bargain.

Burn it on the barbie.

When good and seasoned it burns clean, smells good and imparts a good flavor to the meat.

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/168570/red-oak

 

[MikeG]

If there's any left by the time I get to building the BBQ, I might well do just exactly that!

 

[88v8]

Lovely pic in that NT house. I can understand why you'd want that. What wood was it? Elm, perhaps. Those wide boards.
If one could get boards that width, a small wall might be doable for four figures.
Not a wall to stand things in front of, said he ungrammatically.

Vastern Oak are a specialist hardwood supplier and have lovely oak in wide boards, routinely up to 12" but I dare say they could quote you for wider.
https://www.vastern.co.uk/flooring/solid-hardwood/english-oak-flooring-barn-grade/

If the wall is not to be framed, the boards need to be jolly well seasoned to avoid cupping. The wider it is the more seasoned it must be, so the 'Barn Grade' in that particlar Vastern url may not suit. I'd confer with your supplier on moisture levels. Bear in mind that a timber yard which does not specialise in hardwoods is likely to be buying it in from elsewhere.

For oak, use only stainless or brass fixings.

Then, how to finish it. Wax, oil, polish...........
Apply the finish to the boards before applying the cover pieces, so that if there is shrinkage it will not show strips of bare wood.

Ivor

 

[a twig]

Look on ebay, there's a place in Scotland that does what you're looking for. Cost around £50 each and will deliver nationwide.