What's living in our roof space?

[Lindyboo]

I’m puzzled by what’s living in the roof spaces. For about a month something’s been scampering overhead at night. No squeaks, no droppings. It had got behind the washer in the kitchen when it first arrived and dug out fibre wall insulation and bits of wood and piled them up at the side of the washer but seems to now prefer the overhead spaces. Some floorboarding has been nibbled a bit and pipe insulation also.

We’ve put down several mouse traps in the areas where it’s been visiting – the pre-baited snap-trap variety which we’ve used before very successfully for previous mouse infestations. Whatever is rampaging about now shows no interest in them after more than a week.

Someone suggested it might be a squirrel. At times it sounds big enough to be, but I know that mice often sound to be wearing clogs, so I’m not sure.
I understand that mice and rats always leave droppings – certainly that’s been entirely evident from earlier infestations, but this time there are no droppings at all. If it’s a squirrel then I’m a bit surprised as we live amid open farmland, with only a few conifers in our garden and have never seen a squirrel in the garden. The nearest wooded area is about a quarter mile away. Do squirrels travel?

 

[Feltwell]

Do squirrels travel?

Only by branch line. Or is it trunk routes?*

Seriously, I've no idea, but I think I'd try a baited cage trap if it's a larger rodent. If they are starting to eat things then I'd get a pest controller in, they need removing quickly before they start nibbling at cables.

I have found that with mice the positioning of the trap is vital - in my garage, they have thrown themselves with gay abandon on one trap, whereas another identical one - located right next to what I am sure is their entrance point, definite evidence of rodent activity there with disturbed insulation - they completely ignore.


*Oh come on - someone had to, and from the usual shortlist of suspects it might as well be me....

 

[Penners]

Do squirrels travel?

Only by branch line. Or is it trunk routes?

What acorn-y pun! But top marks for effort, Feltwell!

Lindyboo - your visitors could be mice, rats, squirrels... even birds. The behaviour in your kitchen strongly suggests rodents but, if you can't find droppings, the loft invasion may not be the same creatures. Have you checked around the loft to see whether there is any possible point of entry for birds?

I find those plastic, pre-baited traps very good for mice, but they're not big or powerful enough for rats.

 

[Feltwell]

Do squirrels travel?

Only by branch line. Or is it trunk routes?

What acorn-y pun! But top marks for effort, Feltwell!

Strangely enough, my "usual shortlist of suspects" featured your good self Penners. :wink:

 

[Me!]

Some floorboarding has been nibbled a bit and pipe insulation also.

Have a look at the tooth marks where the floorboard has been nibbled. You should be able to tell from the size of the individual marks made by each tooth if it is a rat or a mouse. If you haven't seen any droppings, then try looking under the insulation (assuming you have fibreglass or rockwool) as I find rats tend to tunnel under my insulation whereas mice tend to stay on the surface more often. Wear gloves, rats can spread Weil's disease. Although that link says it isn't common in the UK, I knew somebody who died from it, and it wasn't pleasant. Rats are absolutely disgusting creatures that need to be hunted mercilessly and completely removed from any areas of human habitation. Rats will avoid anything new, so I leave a few traps up in my loft at all times. They aren't baited or loaded, but it means they have absorbed all the smell and dust etc. from their surroundings. When I hear the scampering start again, I bait the traps with a raisin dipped in chocolate spread, and usually within a few nights I have caught it. Personally I have found that the old-fashioned wood and sprung metal traps are best. Do tie them to a nail in a joist or similar though using a bit of fencing wire, as I have known a rat try to escape sometimes with the trap after it has been caught.

 

[Penners]

Rats are absolutely disgusting creatures that need to be hunted mercilessly and completely removed from any areas of human habitation

I completely agree.

We live in the wilds of the Suffolk countryside, where rats are commonplace (as they are everywhere - the only difference being that we can see them in our garden). I have found the best method of eradication to be poisoned bait that's sold in small sachets - each one about the size of a matchbox. You place the sachets regularly in places where rats run, and after the obligatory "getting-used-to-them" period, the rat starts to take the sachets daily. The big benefit is that it doesn't eat the bait in situ. It thinks "Oooh - prepacked food. I'll take that home for the family!". So instead of just eliminating the individual rat, your get rid of the whole nest.

You have to keep laying the bait for several weeks until the sachets stop disappearing, but after that you can be fairly confident that you've got rid of the problem.... for a while, at least, until a new colony establishes itself.

I am emphatically against "humane" rodent traps. You catch the blighter alive and dump it somewhere away from your home, where it just becomes someone else's problem and continues to breed. That's not a solution.

 

[Me!]

Penners told me about Townex sachets a few years ago, and I have used them ever since. Personally, I use them in the outbuildings but not usually in the house as I don't really want decaying rodent bodies under the floorboards or in the walls. But, if you really can't catch whatever is in your loft using a trap, then I would have no hesitation in using the sachets there rather than leaving the creature roaming free!
I don't know how widespread the problem is, but I have seen more rats in the garden this summer than ever before. Like Penners, we are completely surrounded by fields so this may just be a countryside problem caused by a quirk of the weather and / or local crops this year, or it may be in towns and villages as well. In previous years, it is when the weather turns cold that the rats start getting more daring in their attempts to get in the house. So, if you have outbuildings where you can safely put down poison to attract the rats there and away from the house, then I would suggest that you do.

 

[Lindyboo]

Thanks all for your suggestions. I had a shin up the roof spaces – the two that are more ‘easily’ accessible – and though I saw no droppings and couldn’t detect that ‘rodent’ smell, there was considerable disruption and movement of fibre-glass insulation. There appeared to be a large pile of it accumulated in one area which, I feel pretty sure, wasn’t there the last time I peeked in that area, but that was years ago. Plenty of gnawed electrical cables but they may have been done by any of the mice infestations in the past.

I think I’ll have to assume a rat at this point and put down either a kill trap or the poison as mentioned here.

If it turns out to be a squirrel then that will bring other issues, since as most here will know, greys can’t be released back into the wild and must be killed, but I’ll worry about that if it comes to it.

 

[LadyArowana]

If it turns out to be a squirrel then that will bring other issues, since as most here will know, greys can’t be released back into the wild and must be killed, but I’ll worry about that if it comes to it.

I wouldn't worry, it might just escape while nobody was looking mightn't it ? :lol:

 

[Penners]

Like Penners, we are completely surrounded by fields

The utter joy of Suffolk, eh? Although perhaps we ought to keep quiet about it, otherwise everyone will want to live here and the peace of our rural idyll will be shattered! :wink:

I have seen more rats in the garden this summer than ever before......this may just be a countryside problem caused by a quirk of the weather and / or local crops this year, or it may be in towns and villages as well. In previous years, it is when the weather turns cold that the rats start getting more daring in their attempts to get in the house.

Actually, Me!, our experience is the opposite. There was hardly a single rat to be seen during the warmer weather, and this winter (touch wood!) we've seen none at all lurking around under the bird tables, where they've always been commonplace in previous winters. I'm not fool enough to imagine that we're rid of them, but I'm hoping that my extensive use of Townex and the air rifle last winter has at least kept the population down a bit.

 

[kreyszig]

I would guess rats. mice are incontinent so do leave droppings wherever they go. rats aren't.

 

[Matt Green]

I would guess rats. mice are incontinent so do leave droppings wherever they go. rats aren't.

Mice frequently mark pathways with urine, forming pillars in some cases, but they are not urine or fecal incontinent. Chinese whispered old wives tale, sorry.

 

[worms]

I would guess rats. mice are incontinent so do leave droppings wherever they go. rats aren't.

Mice frequently mark pathways with urine, forming pillars in some cases, but they are not urine or fecal incontinent. Chinese whispered old wives tale, sorry.

We have a mouse at the moment, but probably not for much longer... Field mice are much less likely to leave visible signs of urine or faeces than house mice and this guy only has a couple of well defined places where he is leaving droppings, close to accumulations of nesting materials. At night you would swear it was at least a rat or squirrel that was running through the walls and gnawing at the woodwork. It's the noise more than the damage that has finally made us decide that it is time to see him off!

 

[Zebra]

Mice frequently mark pathways with urine, forming pillars in some cases

I'm still intrigued as to how one forms a pillar of urine. I might give it a go.

 

[Penners]

it is time to see him off!

Would ye be chasin' yon sleekit, cow'rin, tim'rous beastie wi' murdering pattle?

 

[Penners]

Mice frequently mark pathways with urine, forming pillars in some cases

I'm still intrigued as to how one forms a pillar of urine. I might give it a go.

It's easy. Choose a very cold day and go outside when nature calls....

 

[worms]

it is time to see him off!

Would ye be chasin' yon sleekit, cow'rin, tim'rous beastie wi' murdering pattle?

Wi' the end piece of a rather fine imported saucisson sec on a spring trap, actually!

But you are right, perhaps I should declare a Burns night truce for tonight:

I doubt na, whyles, but thou may thieve;
What then? poor beastie, thou maun live!

 

[88v8]

Gathering up the insulation sounds like squirrel.
A big metal snap trap baited with a nut might do for it. Penners' point about fastening the trap to something is a good one.

If whatever it is is chewing the wiring, that makes it pretty urgent to get rid. Our mice, of which we have an apparently inexhaustible supply, just chew the foam pipe insulation.

Currently we have rats nesting outside by burrowing down beside the stone wall where the soil is presumably less dense. Feeding off the bird table.
I thought I'd shot them out, but lately realise I haven't. Will try the Townex, thankyou.

Ivor

 

[Penners]

Currently we have rats nesting outside by burrowing down beside the stone wall where the soil is presumably less dense. Feeding off the bird table.
I thought I'd shot them out, but lately realise I haven't. Will try the Townex, thankyou.

Just remember, Ivor, that it will probably take a few days for them to carry away the first Townex sachet(s). They need to get used to them. And once they do start taking them, it's important to keep laying them non-stop every day until they stop being removed. This can take a few weeks.

PS: I don't think securing the rat-trap was my idea. It sounds much too intelligent to be me!

 

[Lindyboo]

Had a look up in the loft space and things are still happening. More accumulation of insulation and disruption of same - lengths appear to have been pulled down from the roof and heaped into the pile. No droppings or odour. No additional chewing of wires. I took some pics but am embarrassed to admit I can't figure how to post them on the site. Is there a help page for this?