What would be best?

[middi]

What would you do ?.

The dilemma is to decide which staircase would complement my 15th C. timber house.

The staircase will be build by myself so I have infinite options, the present staircase is a 1970's and the first tread has only 5 feet three inches clearance to the underside of the centre beam.

The CO has no problem removing this and for me to build an " L " shaped one so one can keep their cranium in one piece.

My immediate reaction was, great, now I can build a nice oak staircase to fit the opening available and improve on the existing.
There is evidence of four previous staircases which were used in different parts of the building.

Some confusion has set in deciding what is best, as there is no such thing as a 15th. C. staicase as we know it, there is evidence of a 3 ft x 4 ft opening purposely built in the floor beams where a stair ladder probably was on another side of the building.

My whistles and bells oak staicase plans have been binned, a simple stairladder is not practical for obvious reasons ( such as regular visit to the A&E with the wife) so I am forced once again to compromise .

I was thinking of an hybrid between a staircase and a stairladder, chunky but safe with simple hand rails.

Alternatively just a modern style oak staircase, or, as my wife suggested( bless her ! ), take to the extreme and have one in glass and stainless steel( God forbid ).

I am still thinking as to what would be best suited.

Any opinions welcome.

 

[Penners]

Middi

Surely your new staircase will have to comply with building regs, won't it? A potted version of these stipulates as follows:

The maximum angle of a staircase in a private house is 42 degrees. The maximum rise is 220mm and the minimum going is 220 mm. The minimum headroom at any point must be 2000mm.

With the co-operation of your CO in your negotiations with Building Control, I believe it is possible to get the regs relaxed for a listed building, but I don't know how easy this is.

We once lived in a 15th century cottage in Essex that had a very ancient staircase (or the remains of this). Instead of being constructed from boards (one vertical and one horizontal) the treads were solid oak in a right-angle-triangular section (the hypotenuse forming the underside of the tread - if you see what I mean). You might like to consider this if you (a) are filthy rich, and/or (b) have your own very beefy wood machinery!

Do let us know what you decide to do.

David

 

[Carol]

'Nice oak' sounds lovely and would probably look great. We have an ancient, probably 1450-80 spiral stair in a little 'turret' stuck on the back of our place. The original treads are worn wood and have been covered with a later tread. Outside is squared off, but inside is semi-circular. Our carpet fitter nearly cried trying to put in the carpeting!
Surely to be in keeping with a 15thC house,it is very important to regularly bang heads on the beam at foot of stairs!

 

[Penners]

Carol

it is very important to regularly bang heads

Speaking as a baldheaded old git, I can do without that period feature. You have no idea how painful it is to bash a bald cranium!

David

 

[biffvernon]

We have an ancient, probably 1450-80 spiral stair in a little 'turret' ... Our carpet fitter nearly... put in the carpeting!

You should have used the Inspiral Carpets.

 

[middi]

Funny you should mention cutting the stair treads and rise from one lump of oak David, my architect ( James Boutwood ) suggested the same, my only concern, as you say, is finding the right seasoned " lump " at the right price. It would mean a lot of carving and probably look really nice.

I have never actually seen an old stair like that.

As to regulations, luckly the CO and the building inspector were at loggerheads over this one and the CO won, the inspected suggested removing one of the floor beams, It didn't go down very well with the CO.

It was only a slight compromise on the gradient and at the end everybody was happy.

As to banging my head , I've found that as you get older your eye lids drop and the natural silhouette of static objects on the horizon at head height become mobile object whch speed up the death of brain cells.

 

[biffvernon]

I don't think it would have to be seasoned. If a few shakes develop it wouldn't matter. You should be able to get green oak of the right size for about £15 per cubic foot or less and then you need a decent chainsaw.

 

[middi]

This solution Biff would definetely solve the high expence and the difficulty in availability and certainly much easier to carve out.

My concern would be in the amount of shrinkage and splitting which will take place, then again, if I carefully work with the flow of the grain in the oak I could influence (to a degree) how drastic the natural splitting will become.

I suppose that with such a big lump when most of the timber has been carved out and thinned, a lot of the core stress has been reduced and maybe it would settle reasonably well.

The truth is Biff, that even with my reasonable knowledge of green oak behaviour, this one would be difficult to call.

The alternative would be to just get on with it and just do it, after all that is what they must have done a few hundred years ago.

We will see. I have a couple of months or so to decide.

 

[NT]

This solution Biff would definetely solve the high expence and the difficulty in availability and certainly much easier to carve out.

My concern would be in the amount of shrinkage and splitting which will take place, then again, if I carefully work with the flow of the grain in the oak I could influence (to a degree) how drastic the natural splitting will become.

I suppose that with such a big lump when most of the timber has been carved out and thinned, a lot of the core stress has been reduced and maybe it would settle reasonably well.

The truth is Biff, that even with my reasonable knowledge of green oak behaviour, this one would be difficult to call.

The alternative would be to just get on with it and just do it, after all that is what they must have done a few hundred years ago.

We will see. I have a couple of months or so to decide.

Thats how you get some of the same minor flaws / character that an original would hav had. Just make it exactly the same way.


NT

 

[NT]

The maximum angle of a staircase in a private house is 42 degrees. The maximum rise is 220mm and the minimum going is 220 mm. The minimum headroom at any point must be 2000mm.

What do you do when achieving this is not possible? For example it would be hard to get 2m headroom if the whole floor is lower than this, and equally impossible to keep to 42 degrees if key structural features just dont allow enough room to comply.


NT

 

[middi]

I shall treat this as a bit of a challenge, and just get on with it.

If my wife moans, I have got a couple of open fires anyway

Thank you all for your thoughts and comments.

 

[skier-hughes]

If my wife moans, I have got a couple of open fires anyway

I don't recall anyone suggesting you burn your wife if she moans :shock: :lol:

 

[middi]

Nice one Graham

 

[CHRIS]

Middi - do you source your oak local to you? I am just up the road from you (100 yds from your Architect) and am looking for a place that does green oak. I know of a place in Heydon but do you know of one nearer? £15 cube foot as Biff says sounds good but is that a Linconshire price as compaired to our neck of the woods.

cheers

 

[middi]

To be quite honest with you since Braces in Ongar went bust I have used all sorts of suppliers.

I have been using a saw mill near Gossfield at about £16 c.foot, but I have to wait for the trees to come in from the farmers.

There is another small saw mill about three milles from Saffron walden coming from Thaxted , he sell to Ridgeons and the price he wants is the same as you pay from ridgeons , £ 17 c.foot.

When I want a substantial amount I get it from "Venables", importers up north, but it is european oak.

Lately I have been getting it directly from Ridgeons, and their price is just as good as anybodyelse.

If I need seasoned Oak I get it from International timber in Colchester.

I am not really settled on a supplier.

 

[CHRIS]

Thanks for that, is that Tutton timber in Gosfield? I was told about it before but never went over.

What is the name of the place near Thaxted?

I normaly use Ridgeons as well but hate going as it seems to take ages and can never just pop in, but they do give the dog treats so she is ok with it!

 

[Penners]

Depends whether this is local to you, but I usually use the Shrublands Estate sawmill, at the back of Claydon, just outside Ipswich.