what is the structural effect of brick infills?

[gio21]

Hi
I live in a 500 year old timber framed black and white house. Many of the panels have been filled with brick. We have a major leak in a gable end wall on third/top floor of the house. The leak is such that it has produced a nice water feature in the floor below! I've had someone look at it re repair, and he has suggested replacing the brick infilled panels with light weight modern panels (about 9 panels and a window make up the gable end). As the panels have had bricks in for ?many year, do they provide any structural support for the roof? I am concerned if these are replaced that it may cause movement of the roof. Wouls appreciate any thoughts on this.
Thanks
Gio

 

[robgil]

it really depends on the timber frame, its very hard to say. A timber frame flexes more than a brick infill so it is possible that there is a stressed frame resting on the bricks.
some pics may help but if it were me i would repair it rather than replace it.

 

[Flyfisher]

Some non-expert thoughts.

The infill panels would not have been structural when the house was first built, but the frame (if it's anything like ours of a similar age) will undoubtedly have moved over time and parts may have 'settled' upon the brick infill panels such that they are now providing some structural support. As long as the timbers are in good condition, I would not expect the removal of the infill panels to cause any immediate structural problems (i.e. the timber frame should still be strong enough to be self-supporting), but such a removal would almost certainly allow any timbers that have 'come to rest' on the panels to begin moving again, albeit very slowly.

Having said all that, the removal of an entire gable end of infill panels (presumably significantly historic material) seems highly destructive to the original fabric of the building. Such drastic works would certainly require Listed Building Consent (assuming the property is listed) and I'd be very surprised if such consent would be granted for the reasons you describe.

Now, a major leak is indeed a major problem and should certainly be fixed as soon as possible but hopefully not at the cost of substantial damage to the property. Presumably the house has not been leaking throughout its 500 year history so I would start by trying to understand what has changed to cause the problem.

I'd suggest we need some more information about this leak; is the roof sound, are the gutters and downpipes doing their job properly, where is the water coming from, how is it penetrating the house? Photographs are also usually very helpful.


Edit: Robgil has beaten me to it - my fault for such a long-winded post, but we're basically saying the same thing.

 

[gio21]

Thanks. I'm at work at the moment, so can't load photos. I think the leak appears to be coming in above the window and above the longest horizontal beam below the window. I've been told the beams appear ok, and its the movement/gaps in the panels that's letting in the water. I would prefer repair rather than replace, (although none of the panels are wattel and daub, all appear brick covered in hard plaster) as I am worreid the bricks may have settled over time and could be providing some support to the roof, but as I'm not a builder feel out of my depth when discussing this with a builder.

 

[robgil]

i removed some rubble from below a joist support beam so i had a good background for some plaster to key to, one piece was a bit stuck but when it did come out my bedroom floor dropped by a good half inch or more with a dull thud, scared the bejesus out of me.

 

[gio21]

thats exactly my worry.

 

[chapel]

If a builder suggested to me that I replace all our brick infills and replaced with something modern and lightweight I'd laugh out loud as I showed

From the sounds of it you've probably got some cracked or missing mortar/render on the outside around the horizontal beam. We have to on the gable end but its not so bad.

Next time it rains go outside and gaze up and see how the water behaves. The fix should be a zillion times cheaper, and legal, than modern lightweight panels!!!

 

[Lime]

If a builder suggested to me that I replace all our brick infills and replaced with something modern and lightweight I'd laugh out loud as I showed ~added~ him out the door.

From the sounds of it you've probably got some cracked or missing mortar/render on the outside around the horizontal beam. We have to on the gable end but its not so bad.

Next time it rains go outside and gaze up and see how the water behaves. The fix should be a zillion times cheaper, and legal, than modern lightweight panels!!!

I quite agree.
Any builder invited to a 500 year old house that suggests dismantling the structure and replace with modern material to stop a leak should be kicked out sharpish.

The outside of the wall may need some repair but it is next to impossible to say how and with what without actually seeing it.

 

[Flyfisher]

I've obviously been too diplomatic about telling the builder where to go, but I agree with the other comments that he/they don't sound like the right sort of people to let loose on a 500 year old house.

Going out in the rain is a very good idea; I've done this in the past after fixing our roof (the scaffolding made it a lot easier though!). Wrap up warm, put on a good hat and watch where the water is running and, possibly, collecting.

Another thing I've done to very good effect is to fix some breathable roofing membrane over walls being badly affected by broken gutters and downpipes. It's not a permanent solution, of course, but it's highly effective at preventing further water ingress while a permanent fix is being sorted out and, of course, the breathability of the membrane allows any water in the walls to continue to dry out naturally. I appreciate this is not always practical (I had half a roll of the stuff left over from fixing our roof), but anything that can temporarily keep the rain off the affected part of the house will help while the real underlying problem is being sorted out. It also helps you to stop worrying everytime it rains!

 

[FamilyWiggs]

Are you listed?

Try talking to your local CO anyway - they will be a good source of advice in many respects.