What have we done?

[keatsie]

New to this forum, so hi to all.

We have just purchased a very large live in project, part 15th century with a victorian extension. Previously restored in victorian times but now rather sad with little having been done in the last good years.

Uneven floors, sagging main beams downstairs, slopping walls all adding to character but also rather scary to look at. Wood guttering has long since rotted away and we are now just seeing the extent of damage, add to this a leaking roof all getting a bit overwhelming, so expect lots of stupid questions while trying to get a little bit of reassurance.

So when do sagging beams and leaning walls get worrying, what should i look for?

We have had the roofer in and quoted, waiting for the timber frame specialist to view and quote etc.

 

[Keithj]

Greetings, and welcome!

If you haven't already done so, I'd get an expert surveyor of old properties to do a thorough inspection and tell you what you've got, what the priorities are, and so on. It's not always obvious, and what looks bad may not be (and the opposite).

Depending on where you are, someone on here may be able to suggest a suitable person.

 

[jackpoint]

Congratulations, you've just bought yourselves an all consuming hobby!
Have fun

P.S. photos needed!

 

[Flyfisher]

Welcome to the forum!

Don't worry about asking stupid questions; they are not stupid if you don't know the answer and they are also (probably) nothing that PPUKers have not asked themselves at some time. It's what the forum is all about.

As for uneven floors, sagging beams and sloping walls, I'd say that pretty much goes the territory for a mainly 15th century timber frame building and is not, of itself, necessarily any cause for alarm. Conversely, a leaking roof and non-existent guttering would seem like things requiring some reasonably urgent attention. The standard approach is to work from the top down to ensure the building is basically waterproof but there will always be exceptions depending on how long things have been neglected, which is why keithj's suggestion of an independent survey is a good idea. But do ensure it is carried out by someone experienced in such properties - a typical building society 'valuation survey' is hardly worth the paper it's written on for such properties.

As for worrying about such things, you'll probably find that will sort itself out as time moves on and you become more acquainted with your new home. After all, if it has survived 500+ years then it's unlikely to collapse in a heap within the immediate future.

Finally, as mentioned above, photos are encouraged because they can be very helpful to assess such issues (plus we're a nosy lot and love to see any old buildings!) and a rough location is a useful addition to your profile for supplier recommendations etc.

 

[Andys]

Welcome! Yes, photos usually get a good response and a few suggestions.
Don't panic and don't feel pressurised into immediate major works, especially if it's anything to do with damp. Breaking it down into prioritised sections like you're doing helps to give breathing space.

We had a timber frame inspection and report from a conservation carpenter who knew he wasn't necessarily getting the job and we're spreading the work out over a few years - this is proving more useful in practical terms than the pre-purchase survey by a specialist historic and timber-framed building surveyor. That ( the general survey) suffered from all the usual caveats and of being unable to really poke around properly, though he did examine the droppings in the loft and announce they weren't from bats ( so that's all right then...)

 

[mims&pip]

Hi and welcome

Your project sounds wonderful and I can only add to those requesting pics, as it would be great - and helpful to those offering advice - to see the building in question! Speaking as someone that has lived on site during three major restoration projects and has recently embarked on their fourth - the first with a young sprog in tow - I can testify that it's not for the faint-hearted, but is also enormous fun as well as being extremely rewarding

Good luck!

Mims x

 

[keatsie]

Thanks to all, we have a couple of specialist on building survey and restoration coming round to give some guidance, so we hope to get a priority list togther.

Its a fantastic building, is gorgeous with such a warm feeling.

I am trying to add a few pictures to this response.. Probably as attachements.

 

[Zebra]

Don't make too many major decisions too quickly if you can help it. Live in the house for a while, get more used to it, and some of the scariest aspects might seem less alarming (I don't mean holes in the roof). You may find that something you would have ripped out on day one, you get rather fond of and decide to keep. There may be things which you remove (cement render, wallpapaer, etc) to reveal something underneath which affects other decisions you may make. Good luck, it sounds a very exciting project.

 

[bennoa1]

Make contact with your local planning office and see if you can meet the conservation officer on site - I assume its listed. They will give you some pointers and advice on what they perceive acceptable and this will help you in LBC (Listed Building Consent) applications. You will certainly need one for the roof and hopefully the roof tiles don't need replacing as they are likely to have to be hand made and very expensive. I agree about living there a while before rushing in which is what we did and what we have decided upon a year or 2 later is much more beneficial to us and the building than what we may have done if we started working on it straight away. Good luck and would be good to see some pictures.

 

[keatsie]

Finally gor some images up, a couple are from when we viewed in the summer and the rest are recent.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/135453994@N03/

 

[Zebra]

Ooh. Very nice.

 

[Penners]

What a beautiful house!

Uneven floors, sagging beams and sloping walls are often nothing whatsoever to worry about. The great beauty of timber-frame buildings is their ability to cope with such movement over the centuries and yet remain sturdy and sound.

However, it's always worth satisfying yourself as to the reasons for such movement, if you can. Timber frame construction is essentially a very simple form of geometry, so it's usually not too difficult to spot why such deflections in the structure have taken place, if you approach the problem logically. Look for rotted/broken members, poorly wrought repairs/modifications, suggestions of ground settlement... that sort of thing. If you can find out where movements and realignments have taken place, probably the most important thing to do is to try and ascertain how recently they happened. If the plaster/masonry around the moved member looks newly cracked, then you might need to consider some remedial action. However, if the infill around it looks old and long established, then the movement is probably ancient and everything has adapted to the new "shape" of the structure.

If you find any details that do cause you concern, try taking good quality photos and posting them here. There's a wealth of expert and experienced amateur knowledge to draw upon. And do keep us informed of your progress.

 

[Flyfisher]

What a beautiful house - thanks for the pictures.

I can illustrate Penners' comments with a photo of one of our windows. The timber frame section of our house has a distinct lean but I doubt that it has moved for at least a hundred years and very likely a lot longer since it was built around 1550.

I don't know how old this window is but it looks Victorian to me and is certainly not original to this section of the house. As you can see, the window has been inserted vertically between timbers that had already moved into their current, stable position. Considering that the house is built on about three courses of brick as foundation, it's hardly surprising there has been some significant settlement, but the beauty of a timber frame is that it holds together, indeed 'tightens up' even more, under such movement before settling into a rock-solid construction.

 

[Feltwell]

Finally gor some images up, a couple are from when we viewed in the summer and the rest are recent.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/135453994@N03/

Pfah. My outside loo is bigger than that.

OK, OK, I confess, it's a gorgeous house and I'm jealous. Very jealous! :wink:

 

[Feltwell]

As you can see, the window has been inserted vertically between timbers that had already moved into their current, stable position.

Glad to see you've got your cobwebs up in plenty of time for Hallowen FF :wink:

 

[88v8]

Lovely.
I wonder how all those presumably later tiles above the windows are flashed onto the walls.

Edit: if you're going to stick around, edit your Profile to show your location. May help with the localism of any recommendations.

Ivor

 

[Baron de Gynes]

I am delighted to find that not only has someone bought that, but that someone sensitive to older buildings is now its custodian! Welcome to PPUK.

I know where that house is (do I win a prize?) but I shan't give the game away if you want to remain relatively anonymous, but I think I could be allowed to hint that you're, as they used to say in the films "Somewhere in Worcestershire".

 

[Flyfisher]

Glad to see you've got your cobwebs up in plenty of time for Hallowen FF :wink:

Very droll. :lol:

Actually, it's quite an old photo taken soon after the roof had been stripped, repaired and replaced, which generated a great deal of dust and dirt.

Honest

 

[mims&pip]

I am delighted to find that not only has someone bought that, but that someone sensitive to older buildings is now its custodian! Welcome to PPUK.

I know where that house is (do I win a prize?) but I shan't give the game away if you want to remain relatively anonymous, but I think I could be allowed to hint that you're, as they used to say in the films "Somewhere in Worcestershire".

Me too.....in fact we very nearly viewed it ourselves :wink:

It's very nice btw, keatsie

Mims x

 

[Feltwell]

It is indeed a beautiful house.

The usual mantra applies - do essential repairs to make the structure safe & watertight, but don't rush into any changes, live with the place for a bit and you'll find your approach will change, it seems to for most of us on here.