what finish?

[Mrs U]

Hi,
We live in a Georgian house in Edinburgh in what would have been the maids' rooms in the roof, and we're having plasterwork repairs done by a lime plasterer on the lathe and plaster this coming week. The question is, what do we put on top? We had been thinking a limewash (I think that's what it is - th man said it's laborious, but would look good at the end of it, as well as being breathable, etc, and I'm looking forward to doing it), but I was wondering what would originally have covered the walls and ceiling? Wallpaper? Limewash? Something else?

The flat was redone in the 1980s, so it's just the original plaster we can see in the front room, and no idea if that's because that was all that was there, or any covering was removed in the 1980s...although I guess we might learn more when we take off the woodchip wallpaper in the back room, also papered-over in 1980s.

We'd also be very interested to know how the fireplaces would have appeared. Whatever was there was ripped out in 1980s, although we've uncovered the front room one and tiled and put in a stove as an economical, sustainable heat source - we'd like to reopen the bedroom fireplace too, and would love to know how it would have appeared, materials etc - would there have been a mantel, or would it just be flush to the wall? etc etc!

Apologies for the long post - if anyone can help, I'd be fascinated to find out more!

Many thanks!

 

[Ian Bond]

Lime wash or distemper would be the perfect finish for lime plaster.

As you say, you may find layer upon layer of old wallpaper under the woodchip. Or maybe behind cupboards etc that were fitted later.

I'd guess that fireplaces and decoration would be simpler in an attic than in grand reception rooms on the lower floors. How much remained of the fireplace that you've repaired?

I take it that the bedroom fireplace has been bricked up and plastered over?

My house is in a terrace, one of a block of 4 and another of 5. Most of the houses have lost nearly all their original features. There's an original door here, a window there, one house has the original hob grates and stone fireplace. By getting to know the neighbours and helping them with repairs I've gathered enough info to recreate some of my missing bits.

And one chap threw an 1830s panelled door in his skip - so I 'ad it!!

Other than that, it's a case of looking out for similar buildings of the same era locally, and getting ideas from there. I've even been in derelict vernacular building up on the moors, taking photos for reference!

My front bedroom fireplace had been completely removed - stone shelf, lintel and jambs. The back bedroom fireplace was better - just bricked up with the shelf hacked off. So that gave me a clue as to how to design a new fireplace for the front.

 

[Moo]

They wouldn't have given the servants posh fireplaces. And they would have been pretty small - wouldn't want to waste fuel keeping the lower orders overheated.

 

[Mrs U]

Thanks very much for the replies! Definitely not going posh - we know our place

very interesting about finish - lime wash or distemper, great...

I'm afraid there was absolutely nothing left of the fireplace behind the breeze blocking-up in the front room, sadly, except the lintel - just bits of horsehair hanging out the back, which was interesting to see in itself, having been brought up in a 1930s semi in London (which had a fireplace, but i never saw behind it, and guessing it wouldn't have been limed?!)

However, the back room is another story - we've no idea what's behind there - assuming the same, but hoping there might be something there, as you say! I think it was once used as a kitchen though, before it was converted to a flat properly (it's now the bedroom), so I'm guessing that if there was once something there, it was removed a long time ago... I will let you know when we knock through after the front room is done! We've only got four rooms including small kitchen and bathroom, so we have to live in one room whilst the other is being 'done'.

Shall go off and research late Georgian maid's fireplaces c 1821....

ps it's amazing what different people throw out - we could also have made great use of an 1830s georgian door! Am a great fan of skip hunting - used to live in Paris where everyone puts their 'junk' out on the street once a month and goes hunting in everyone else's stuff for things for their own flats - total domestic recycling!

 

[Ian Bond]

In my attic, the poor servant had a call bell (parts of the mechanism remain) but no fireplace. Or windows. Must've been hellish.

Limewash needs very good preparation to work well, and is best directly onto lime plaster, stone, brick or wood. It won't stick as well to gypsum plasters, modern paints (or over distemper). But you can get primers to help.

I'm limewashing my rooms at the moment - the finish won't be to everyones taste as it's not 'perfect' and uniform like emulsion. I may struggle with limewash in some of the rooms where the plaster has been patched up and filled. If I can't get it to work well than I'm considering some of the 'eco' emulsions and clay paints. They promise a matt finish and you can mix your own colours if you want.

I really want the limewash to work though, as I've found that it was the original finish. So far, it is covering and sticking well and passes the 'clothes rubbed along the wall' test. It would be embarrassing if guests got their clothes marked accidentally brushing against the walls.

 

[biffvernon]

we're having plasterwork repairs done by a lime plasterer on the lathe and plaster this coming week. The question is, what do we put on top?

I would put a good dust sheet on top of the lathe before the plasterer starts work.

 

[Cloudscape]

Limewash needs very good preparation to work well, and is best directly onto lime plaster, stone, brick or wood.

Presumably limewash is OK on older limewash too?

I haven't used limewash yet. How opaque is it?

If I opted to colour the limewash in some way, would the colour be hard to conceal with future coats?

 

[Ian Bond]

Yes, just brush any loose stuff off and wet it down well. I've stripped back to the old limewash and the new stuff is stuck fine.

Coverage is tricky - if you try to coat too thickly in one go, it will crack and fall off as it dries. Several coats are best - I leave at least a day between coats.

I've just covered a blue limewashed ceiling in 3 coats of white and it's OK. The ceiling had been covered with a vinyl emulsion, but I scraped it off to reveal an old blue limewash.

The white limewash is almost clear when wet, and becomes opaque as it dries. And due to the purity of the lime, it is very white - the old stuff can't have been that white can it?

Coloured limewash goes a much lighter shade as it dries.

The effect also depends on the ratio of lime putty to water. The 'standard' wash I bought was at least 3 parts water to 1 part putty - this was a bit too transparent to cover my patchy walls. I now make my own limewash up, with about 2 parts putty to 3 parts water.

Make it weaker for a more transparent and aged look. It's far cheaper making your own limewash up, rather than buying ready mixed. If you've got the time and inclination.

There's loads of info on t'internet about limewashing, and colour washing. Some of the instructions are frighteningly prescriptive, which I'm sure puts plenty of people off trying it.

It's worth a go though, and I really like what I've done so far, although is does look 'aged'. Not perfect, uniform and dull.

As I mentioned above - if it goes wrong due to patchy walls and old filler and looks awful, you can always go over it with a breathable eco paint that's more forgiving.

 

[Ian Bond]

Oh, and I did the tie beam with limewash too. It's a rough beam, but clad with planed, moulded boards on each side, lathed and plastered underneath. The idea was to make it look like a much larger, and well finished beam.

It was originally limewashed, but the finish had been washed off the wood, and the thing had been wall papered.

Anyway, the limewash covered the dark old wood and the repaired (blue) limewashed plaster underneath. Looks good and I'm glad I didn't just emulsion the lot.

 

[Mrs U]

Mny thanks for all your replies! after first day, turns out walls have previously been cemented in places by 1980s botch jobbers (ironically, the architects firm was in fact a top Edinburgh firm in the 1880s, 60 years after our house was built, and responsible for some of the best Victorian architecture in the capital) - anyway, i heard mention of pva to do with our lime plaster - erm, alarm bells rang - can anyone help? emergency request! he's back in the morning, and I do want to know what the pva thing is - thought pva bad? or am i getting confused?

thanks very much in advance!

 

[Ian Bond]

PVA is usually used to help gypsum plasters stick better to the wall. It can be used to help lime plaster stick to plasterboard etc.

However, it reduces breathability of the surface, and if you are lime plastering properly you would not need it.

Do you intend to remove all the cement and gypsum?

If limewash is not successful, you could try some of the eco paints, that should look OK and cover better over the problem surface.

 

[johndow]

Hi Mrs U

If you are in any doubt, or have any lime Q's you need answering quickly......head down to Leith, Commercial Street, and find Masons Mortar. Not only do they supply lime products but they will answer your questions knowledgeably.
PVA and lime do not go well together, well they will, the whole thing will stick better and create a good shortcut, but I don't think that's what you are looking for. If you do have a mixture of gypsum and lime, Masons will mix you a special blend fit for purpose.
Check them out, and don't be afraid to postpone or delay things to get it right.

John

 

[Mrs U]

thanks! There are parts that have been cemented, basically, in teh 1980s - and the lathe removed and replaced with plasterboard/cement. this may be what they're thinking of pva-ing.... other bits are pristine lathe plaster combo - the supervisor is very conservation minded...will chat to him tomorrow. there is mention of hydraulic lime for quicker drying.

we have also been told that we're going to have to use eco paint, rather than limewash, because of this cement problem, because it won't look uniform and becuase of the time to rough up the cement bits i think.. the walls were more challenging than they though - i think they're concerned that if they remove teh cement, it's going to be a massive job to rebuild lathes underneath and take a very long time ie money... it's a serious bodge job under there...

hmmmm.. will talk more to chief plasterer tomorrow and post back!
thanks very very much - it's never simple is it?! :?

 

[Mrs U]

thanks very much john - just saw your answer! husband is off to masons tomorrow to pick up the supplies, so will ask them - and our plasterer!
thanks!

 

[biffvernon]

PVA is great when mixed with powder paint and small children, but best not used on the house.

 

[Penners]

we're having plasterwork repairs done by a lime plasterer on the lathe and plaster this coming week. The question is, what do we put on top?

I would put a good dust sheet on top of the lathe before the plasterer starts work.

I think that one fell on stoney ground, Biff. :wink: