What do we do with this inglenook ?

[masochists-r-us]

Hi everyone,
attached picture shows what was once a magnificent 9' long bressumer, hacked in half to accommodate the lovely yellow doorway some time in the 1960's. We have got permission to re-open the original doorway on the other side of the fireplace, to close this one up and to repair the inglenook. However, the structural engineer is not encouraging us to restore the fireplace on the basis that the friable chimney breast above could collapse if we were to try to remove it and replace it with a new full length one. In any case, the C.O. doesn't want us to replace it as she wants us to conserve the historic fabric (as do we). As per her suggestion we have looked into clever methods of joining a new piece of timber to the old one with metal rods and epoxy resin, but the view of the struct. eng.is that this would never offer sufficient structural security to hold up the chimney breast. We could just do a cosmetic extension of the bressumer with some new material and leave the brick wall in place half way across to continue to provide structural support, but that does not fufill our dream of restoring this grand old fireplace.
Any good ideas / suggestions as to how we might tackle this would be most welcome.

 

[yamin]

OMG what an awful thing to do! You'll get some great advice here from others far better positioned to comment than me, but that photo is just terrible!

 

[Schoolmarm]

Has the stonework been removed to the right as we are looking at the photograph?

Is it possible to post a picture with the door open?

 

[Cloudscape]

Did the beam (as far as you can see) originally sit in the wall to the right of the pic, or have they removed some masonry to create the doorway?

Oops - same question. Could we see larger pics?

 

[masochists-r-us]

Has the stonework been removed to the right as we are looking at the photograph?

Is it possible to post a picture with the door open?

Hi Schoolmarm,
As you can see, no stonework left, but we think that the bressumer may have keyed straight into the external wall as opposed to there being matching stone jambs on the right hand side too, but this may be because that would be an easier scenario for us to live with. For info, there are concrete lintels supporting the chimney breast above the doorway.

 

[Schoolmarm]

Is that the concrete lintel showing pale above the door? It isn't very wide.

Is it definitely chimney breast above that door? If so it is not really supported at all on that side.

 

[masochists-r-us]

Is that the concrete lintel showing pale above the door? It isn't very wide.

Is it definitely chimney breast above that door? If so it is not really supported at all on that side.

Yes, there are three concrete lintels laying side by side above the doorway, supported on the left side by the brick wall you can see and then on the right side by the external wall they are keyed into. Yes, it's definitely chimney breast and it goes up through the first floor and attic space so there's some 15ft of stone rubble to come crashing down if we get it wrong.

 

[Schoolmarm]

Ok, just an observation which is irrelevant. The left side looks like the weight would be going down through just the door jamb. Not great really.

I'm still puzzled by the off centredness of it. Sorry! So their is no alcove upstairs to the right of the chimney breast?

 

[FamilyWiggs]

Usual caveats apply whereby if your house falls down, it's nothing to do with me guv'nor, but...

I'm sure there must be a way to temporarily support the chimney above (fingers through and props?) - this would enable you to remove the course of stone just above the bressamer and insert a full length concrete beam or RSJ. You should then be able to remove the wall etc, and splice in new timber to the bressamer which is now non-supporting.

No doubt others will be along shortly to advise if this is really possible and I note your engineer isn't particularly keen on this idea.

A crime that the 1960's changes were allowed to happen. :shock:

 

[CHRIS]

http://www.strongboy.co.uk/product_info.php/products_id/36?osCsid=kh4qbd3f0o983l9fbk4iesj8n1

You need a Strongboy to do that!

 

[Penners]

Usual caveats apply whereby if your house falls down, it's nothing to do with me guv'nor, but...

I'm sure there must be a way to temporarily support the chimney above (fingers through and props?) - this would enable you to remove the course of stone just above the bressamer and insert a full length concrete beam or RSJ. You should then be able to remove the wall etc, and splice in new timber to the bressamer which is now non-supporting.

I agree (LBC permitting). Once the doorway is completely dismantled, you should be able to use strongboys or needles/acrows to supportthe chimney structure while you remove the concrete lintels and a couple of courses of bricks above the truncated original bressummer and insert a full-width RSJ to act as the load-bearing member, allowing you to do a cosmetic repair on the bressummer.

The above rather flies in the face of what your structural engineer has said, but has he really expressed concern that the whole chimney could come down? In a situation such as this, if the worst happens and some masonry does collapse, the damage is usually confined to a pyramid of masonry - roughly an equilateral triangle.

But, as FW said above, the decision has to be yours. If the idea works, it's all thanks to me. If the whole lot collapses, it's FW's fault.

 

[masochists-r-us]

Thanks everyone especially Penners for your helpful comments which served to confirm our thoughts on the matter. After the structural engineer had commented I was becoming resigned to the fact that the brick wall half way across the inglenook would have to remain,but LBC permitting an RSJ just above the bressumer it is.

 

[FamilyWiggs]

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Typical - Penners always gets the credit for my ideas.

:mrgreen:

 

[Penners]

Penners always gets the credit for my ideas.

How true. Never had an original thought in my life.

 

[FamilyWiggs]

Penners - how lovely to see you back. I presume you have had an internet installed in the new house already? How was the move? Looked after your back I hoped? When can we see some pics?

Jose has been salsaing whilst you were away to entertain us - sadly the photos were too hot and have been censored; they kept bringing the forum down.

 

[JoceAndChris]

I wish. The closest I get to salsa-ing with hot Brazilians these days is my DIY waxing kit- too much information, sorry.

Penners, my dear, I've been so lonely without you I've had to invent a couple of imaginary friends to chat to as I did when 5 yrs old. They weren't as witty as you though.

Would you like us all to lobby your Internet provider to speed things along?