Were there windows here, and should there be again?

[JoceAndChris]

I think yes, and yes, but I'm interested to know your collective thoughts, plus any practical advice from any of you who have reinstated windows. I'd love to have three windows in my breakfast room, it would really help in terms of light/ damp.

I have a picture of how these alcoves looked in the 70's before previous owner replastered it and put in those light fittings (crafted from the original roof laths!), at that time kitchen units were fitted in. So these two alcoves were windows a very long time ago; I wonder why they were filled in? There is some evidence the main bulk of the cooking took place here in 1790 ish. I wonder if the windows fell into disrepair, and it was considered cheaper and warmer just to brick them up.

My possible windows would have been directly under the drawing room windows on the sides of the bay, a typically symmetrical Georgian design. The walls there now have sandstone slabs stuck on them (by previous owner) so it's hard to be completely sure if they were windows without removing these slabs. I guess ground levels were lower back then too.

You can just see the crack in the cement render behind the rose, it's exactly above the alcove site which I've been told is also indicative of the presence of filled in windows.

Anyway, what issues need to be considered when reinstating windows in an unlisted property?

 

[Flyfisher]

I'm guessing, but it looks to me as if there were three windows originally and that the ground levels were significantly altered after they were blocked in. Is it feasible to lower the ground levels? At least level with the middle window, if not lower. It would probably help with your damp issues as well.

There is probably loads of red tape regarding reinstating a blocked in window, involving architects, structural engineers, building control and planning permission, although you're not listed, so don't need to bother with LBC. On the other hand, if there really were previously fitted windows, which were simply bricked in, then unbricking them shouldn't affect the house structure (assuming lintels were not removed during bricking up - unlikely because the windows look like self-supporting arches) and, since you're fairly secluded then who would know if you reinstate the windows anyway, to match the existing one of course? They would certainly transform your breakfast room.

Besides, what's the worst that could happen if you just opened them up? Being made to brick them back up?

 

[robgil]

didnt they block windows in to get around 'window tax'?

sorry im not any more help , still a lovely looking room though.

 

[JoceAndChris]

didnt they block windows in to get around 'window tax'?

sorry im not any more help , still a lovely looking room though.

That's OK, there's nothing so helpful as friendliness anyway!

Yes they did block up windows to avoid tax, not sure when though.

Thanks Flyfisher, just the kind of go-ahead I wanted! Sure ground levels can easily be taken down a foot ot two (it's just rustic steps and a kind of rockery thing), and can't imagine not getting Planning Permission for this as I'm the only one who'll see it.

As for compromising the structure, I suppose I should get a structural eng. to come and have a look.

 

[Flyfisher]

Oh dear - don't quote me as giving you the go-ahead. :shock:

Seriously though, a structural engineer appraisal would be the safest approach but if the house was originally built with those windows (and assuming it was structurally sound in the first place!) then I'd guess that reinstating the window should have little structural implication. But beware that my guesswork is unfettered by any architectural training whatsoever.

I've no idea if planning permission is required to re-open a bricked up window and if I were in your position then I'd prefer to keep it that way. I'm also not sure that the fact you'll be the only person to see the changes would mean automatic permission, but once the cat is out of the bag then you're in 'their' hands, for better or worse. Are you sure it's not possible that the windows had already been reinstated before you bought the property? :wink:

 

[JoceAndChris]

Oh dear - don't quote me as giving you the go-ahead. :shock:

Don't worry, I won't!

Are you sure it's not possible that the windows had already been reinstated before you bought the property? :wink:

An excellent plan, the bricked-up windows you see above are just bad photography, really they're lovely wiggly glass casements. :wink:

 

[Flyfisher]

the bricked-up windows you see above are just bad photography,

Ahh, I thought I could detect some photoshopping and assumed you were just checking what it would look like if you bricked up two of the original windows. I'd leave all three nice-looking wiggly-glass casement windows as they are if I were you. :wink:

 

[AMc]

We reopened a window that was blocked to prevent overlooking when a previous planning application was submitted to split the house into 3 dwellings. Likewise we've added windows into store cupboard doors and reinstated a doorway which was previously adapted into a window.
This didn't require planning permission which was confirmed in writing by the local planning office when we showed them the plans. If you want to do it then a friendly letter with a couple of pictures would resolve your query more effectively than our non binding legal suggestions and would help if you choose to sell.

As you're not listed your new windows will need to conform to Part L1B of the building regs - so double glazing will be mroe or less compulsory.

 

[biffvernon]

There is probably loads of red tape regarding reinstating a blocked in window, involving architects, structural engineers, building control and planning permission,

I'd just use a cold chisel and bolster. Red tape won't help at all. I'll make you a couple of windows if you start thinking of £500 per square metre plus extra for fiddly bits. To get more light you might start by removing the sticks from in front of the light bulb.

 

[JoceAndChris]

As you're not listed your new windows will need to conform to Part L1B of the building regs - so double glazing will be mroe or less compulsory.

Conform, regs, not my favourite words... But thanks for the advice. The council here do a lovely relaxed form for people who think they might need Planning Permission. You fill it in, they chuck it in the bin, and people go ahead and do what they like- that's the reputation they have anyhow. Can double glazing be nice? I need to see some pictures of nice old-fashioned double glazed windows with wiggly glass. Do they exist?

I'll make you a couple of windows if you start thinking of £500 per square metre plus extra for fiddly bits.

I was hoping you might say that. Mwwwwwah, it would be an honour to have your work here. But, knowing you are the unsung hero of old unloved windows, I thought I'd show you these with my not-very-hopeful idea that they could be reinstated.

And regarding the sticks in front of the lights, they are the ancient laths of the original roof. How could you consider the decimation of the original fabric in that way? :wink:

 

[biffvernon]

What do you mean by the idea that they could be reinstated? They look jolly fine as they are. Make sure you don't block up the robin's doorway by mending the broken pane.

Who was it said something about not hiding one's light beneath a bushel? Maybe they meant old laths.

 

[DaveBrigg]

Possibly the windows were blocked to provide more usable wall space. They provide a useful spot for a cupboard or light fitting.

 

[JoceAndChris]

! I know I mentioned that point before about light fittings... but really!

I can't get rid of those light fittings (which are everywhere, by the way), as the previous owner is coming to visit in June and check I'm being good and preserving his work. This is what happens when you make friends with the previous owner, by the way. I do honour his work, he saved this house from dereliction and he kept its history intact for me to fall in love with. And he's bringing me the photos of the soldiers here in the 1st WW, which I absolutely have to have.

Biff, like all the men in my life you seem to value a good shed when you see one and think it deserving of original Georgian windows.

We'll add your lovely windows to the list of things we're saving up for: at the top, I think.

 

[Tom]

Anyway, what issues need to be considered when reinstating windows in an unlisted property?

Bearing in mind you're under the same council as me, the key word here in 'reinstate'. Be sure to use it in any correspondence Hope this helps.

Jaqy

 

[Me!]

I'm 90% sure that you need building control approval even just to replace an existing window these days unless you are FENSA regulated.

 

[JoceAndChris]

Thanks guys, possibly we'll get round to this in this decade.

We'd pretty much decided not to ask anyone's permission or tell anyone official our plans- sshhhh!