well in the kitchen?

[MetManMark]

The kitchen floor seems to slope inwards slightly and the tiles in the center sound hollow as if there is nothing underneath. You can also see that they have been chipped (they are old (but not original) quarry tiles). I intend to lift them to see what lies beneath. I suspect that there is a concrete floor beneath so I would like to fix this. However, our builder that came along with us suspects that there might be a well or an old drain cover. Is there any way of finding out (online?) whether it is likely to be a well - or is the only way to rip stuff up and see what lies beneath?
Cheers
Mark

 

[Penners]

Have you checked your deeds, to see whether there's any mention of a well? Or the parish records?

 

[MetManMark]

no mention in the deeds - how do I get hold of parish records?
Cheers
Mark

 

[Penners]

It depends whereabouts in Devon you live.

The majority of the original registers deposited are at the Devon Record Office in Exeter but those for North Devon parishes are at the North Devon Record Office , North Devon Library and Record Office, Tuly Street, Barnstaple, EX31 1EL (01271 388607), and those for Plymouth and some West Devon parishes are at the Plymouth and West Devon Record Office, Unit 3, Clare Place, Coxside, Plymouth PL4 0JW (Tel: 01752 305940). The original registers of a very few parishes are still held by the parish churches, but in these cases transcripts or microfiche of the early registers are held at the record office.

Have a look at http://www.devon.gov.uk/parish_registers

 

[worms]

Is there any indication that the kitchen could have been brought into the house at a later stage than the rest of the building? If it was originally external to the house, the well could be marked on older maps.

 

[chuckey]

Could your "kitchen" originally been a scullery? In Victorian days the kitchen had the range in it for cooking, the scullery might have had a wash boiler in it with a drain off cock and a "hole" in the floor for the drained water to disappear into. This was the arrangement in my house. The drain turned out to be a wonderful piece of salt glaze, going from a square hole in the inside top, via a U bend (under the wall)to nothing outside!! I actually concreted the floor but played the white man and removed this unwanted piece of Victoriana.
Frank

 

[d49xc]

Usually the place for them was close by the original place for the kitchen just outside the house.
Often subsequently extended over/ontop of!
Cottages often shared a well - the poorer/smaller ones had to make do with the public ones.
Shared private wells usually have access clauses written into the deeds - where they have survived to present day - the deeds that is.
I've got a copy of a 'well clause' in a deed set locally and the deeds are quite extensive amounting to a whole page detailing cost sharing for maintenance etc etc.
Private ones are unlikely to be marked on any OS map (I'm thinking here of the 1871 25" inch large scale OS one - the most detailed ever done in the UK)
Public ones often ARE on the same map (it a 'W' symbol on the map).
These will be available at the record office for the county - may be on microfiche rather than original.
I've relocated an old well capped over and once public now within a private garden by measuring/pacing from the map....... and telling the owner to start digging in this 'area' he found it capped over some 2 ft down - and promptly uncapped it.

The parish 'Registers' which detail births,marriages & deaths wont have anything about this sort of thing.

If it was a public well there is an off chance of some note in the parish minutes re maintainace but you won't get a location... it will just be referred to as "Honey Well" or some local name known by all at the times but now long since lost.....and going though minutes written by hand in copperplate writing is very tedious.
(Hell even the BGS borehole database of wells/boreholes contains data/ geoolgical sequences for boreholes whose location existance etc is now unknown - its very rare for an old house well to be on this unless it was special/very deep etc)

Std capping proceedure was to take brickwork down some 2 ft below ground level and cover in a circular concrete slab/two semi circles.
The unapproved one in was to stuff an old tree trunk down it, and shove rubbish on top and dump a load of soil and compact down.....fast forward some 100 years.... and the tree trunk has rotten and the top is suspended over nothing. All it needs is for something like a vehicle to drive over the top and the whole lot collapses in en-mass!

 

[Penners]

The parish 'Registers' which detail births,marriages & deaths wont have anything about this sort of thing.

But parish records often contain old maps.

 

[worms]

Private ones are unlikely to be marked on any OS map (I'm thinking here of the 1871 25" inch large scale OS one - the most detailed ever done in the UK)
Public ones often ARE on the same map (it a 'W' symbol on the map).

Ok, but my neighbour's well is on the 1869 and 1905 maps and mine appears in 1905 marked with a P, presumably for pump. I guess it might depend on individual surveyors.

 

[d49xc]

The parish 'Registers' which detail births,marriages & deaths wont have anything about this sort of thing.

But parish records often contain old maps.

Yeah fair point - I was being pedantic and distingushing between the parish REGISTERS and parish RECORDS!
Personally I've never found any during my family tree work on the Oxon/wilt/berks borders - apart that is from the official tithe and enclosure maps plus the official OS 25" and 6" series from the 1870's onwards: which everyone else seemed to copy/trace out thereafter where needed.
Even the deeds I've seen in the RO's from this age don't contain maps - just endless prose.

 

[d49xc]

Private ones are unlikely to be marked on any OS map (I'm thinking here of the 1871 25" inch large scale OS one - the most detailed ever done in the UK)
Public ones often ARE on the same map (it a 'W' symbol on the map).

Ok, but my neighbour's well is on the 1869 and 1905 maps and mine appears in 1905 marked with a P, presumably for pump. I guess it might depend on individual surveyors.

Interesting. Now you mention it I do recall seeing a symbol for a wind pump on some maps of this age and actually know of a farm some distance away which has still got the wind pump in situ. I guess it did depend on who was doing the survey as to what they put on...and indeed what they were told in reply to the questions.

 

[MetManMark]

Hi
Thanks for your comments - I have checked out old maps etc and found out some interesting things regarding boundaries etc however I haven't seen a strange symbol or a "P" on a map. The kitchen is part of the main house.
Cheers
Mark

 

[Penners]

I was being pedantic

And far be it from me to criticise a good dose of pedantry.

I've even been known to indulge in it myself, on rare occasions. :wink:

 

[AMc]

Our new kitchen - formerly the old kitchen - was once a new kitchen extension - was originally the space just outside the back door and contained a well

Various generations had taken down the top of the wall, installed a massive cast iron grate over the top of the brick lined well with some concrete/limecrete over the grate and then a brick floor, then a smear of bitumen and a concrete screed finished off with beautiful vinyl tiles. There was a 4m long lead pipe dropped into the water which appeared to have been in use up until the 1990's when the old kitchen was abandoned.

As we removed the various layers of floor we found the grate and uncovered the unexpected well - 3m down to 1m of water - thankfully no one fell in.
Over a thousand pounds later I have 6 waterproof spotlights shrouded by a stainless steel "hat" topped with an inch of laminated toughed glass.
It looks great but it caused a lot of head scratching and slowed things down and pushed things north of the budget. It also presented me with a H&S hazard that I could have done without.



I wouldn't recommend knocking a hole in a good floor to satisfy your curiosity but I doubt I could restrain myself - just be prepared for an expensive surprise.

IMHO the best way to find out what's there would be to drill a hole large enough/lift a single tile to feed in an inspection camera e.g. http://www.maplin.co.uk/handheld-inspection-camera-with-sd-recording-454480

If the concrete is causing a problem elsewhere and has to be disturbed then I wouldn't worry, just start lifting and you'll get there soon enough - just don't stand on it while your removing the rest