Water Logged Front Garden

[LauraC1979]

Can anyone offer me some advice regarding damp to a Victorian property - we have had an ongoing problem with our front gutter which has caused a 'mini-lake' in our front garden collecting beneath our front bay. Thanks to the recent spell of torrential rain the ground at the front in one area is completely water logged and hasn't had a chance to drain away since the weekend... we recently had completely new dpc and plastering on the inside of the property and we are now really concerned this will cause damage which will result in us having to remove our perfect plaster! The guttering is being fixed this week hopefully today but in the meantime we are dreading it each time it rains.

Many thanks for any advice. We are planning to dig a deep trench around the front of the property and fill it with shingle this weekend to help the problem.

 

[plumbers mate]

Please don't shout at them for their new DPC plastering - be calm and polite...
Please.

 

[David Q]

Sounds like you must have a heavy clay soil that wont let the water drain. All a trench will do is to keep standing water next to the house - not a good idea. The only way is to dig a trench downslope, AWAY from the house. Best to install a ground drain (perforated pipe) and backfill with gravel. But the fall must be away from the house.

 

[LauraC1979]

Thankyou. Yes we do have clay soil which doesn't help, but the problem is really caused by the gutter leak which is pretty bad. We think this has been an on-going problem as there was damp in the house when we brought the property in this specific area only (wet plaster, damp smell, white powder on walls) and the fascias below the guttering are rotten through too (the house was in a bit of a state and had obviously not had any money spent on it in years).

What I am worried about is the affect of all the water on the wall - once we fix the gutter the problem should be resolved but do we need to worry about what affect this has had on our newly treated walls? Will a DPC protect against such a large amount of water, or does the soil need to be water-logged for a certain amount of time before it eventually affects the walls? There is a constant flood in this area at the moment but has only been like this for a week max..

 

[Nemesis]

It does sound though that fixing the gutter may have cured any damp problem rather more cheaply than a DPC of dubious benefit and ripping off all plaster. Is this an injected DPC and walls rendered with stuff which isn't lime?

I'd get the guttering fixed as a priority.

 

[LauraC1979]

yes the guttering should be done tomorrow, but as I said before, I really just wanted to know what effects the water would have had, if any, by now ? Do we need to worry... how long does it take for the plaster to be affected? (We are first time buyers with no money left in the kitty!)

With regards to the DPC, we had injections (we will go to hell) and removed the damp plaster and re-plastered with plaster which is supposed to act in preventative way, not sure of technical name. If DPC is so badly rated what is the alternative? Surely we did the right thing in removing the damp plaster and we let the bricks dry out fully before re-plastering (went from dark red to the same colour as the rest of the bricks in a matter of months in the summer) now the weather has turned the gutter situation has become apparent.

 

[Nemesis]

Well, it's done now, but I suspect fixing the guttering and simply allowing the walls to dry may have saved your cash re DPC.

It's hard to guess if the water will have any effect - hope not. Presumably the walls are now rendered with cementy render and plastered over that with modern plaster?

 

[LauraC1979]

No they are not rendered on the outside, does this mean the brickwork is more liable to be affected? Yes they have new plaster on the inside.

I am curious about your answer to leave the wall to simply dry on its own, if the plaster is wet surely it has to come off, especially if the damp is visible to the eye ?

Thanks for the help with this matter.

 

[Nemesis]

I meant - after the DPC was injected, the interior walls may have hard a cement type first coat, incorporating 'damp proofing', followed by the plaster. It sounds though as though the damp wasn't 'rising' but caused by the leaking gutter.

Removal of plaster - well, it's a case of trial and error, if it was intact but damp, it may have simply dried out. It MAY have had to be redone with more of the same, but it's really a matter of trial to see what effect if any the damp may have had on the plaster.

Sadly, many people are panicked by surveys/conned by purveyors of injection damp'proofing' /made by a mortgage company to have work done which isn't really good for period properties, nor is it cheap, and simpler solutions may have worked.

But it's done now, and hopefully all will be OK with it.

 

[Lime]

It does sound though that fixing the gutter may have cured any damp problem rather more cheaply than a DPC of dubious benefit and ripping off all plaster. Is this an injected DPC and walls rendered with stuff which isn't lime?

I'd get the guttering fixed as a priority.

I think you have hit the nail squarely on the head.

 

[LauraC1979]

The gutter leak is not running down the wall but collecting in a large pool at the bottom, that is why I am worried about rising damp re-occuring. Your comments are all appreciated but the gutter is being fixed this week as mentioned and the plastering had to be done anyway due to very bumpy interior walls and my partner being a perfectionist. It is done now. All I was trying to determine is whether a wall would very quickly become damp in a space of a week if deep water was collecting at the exterior base and if this in turn would affect our DPC and new internal plaster.

Re your comments about DPC - We are first time buyers who would prefer to have a flat which doesn't smell awful, peace of mind and a guarantee when we come to sell for the Home Buyer's Pack. I'm afraid this is the reality in many a cases when it is so hard to get anywhere on the property ladder these days.

I wasn't hoping for criticism on this forum, but useful information. Nevermind...

 

[Nemesis]

I think you will find that the seller's pack has rather been downsized.

As for the rest - please do consider that there are appropriate ways to treat period buildings, which 'modern methods' aren't really part of. In the longer term, they cause problems.

Wobbly walls are really part and parcel of a historic building. Ironing out all period chram isn't totally recommended.

'Rising damp' isn't actually something which happens very often, it's something many who purvey injection damp courses wish to persuade people that it does, however. I'm sorry but a guarantee isn't often worth the paper it's written on, it's no guarantee that more problems aren't in store through using modern materials on old buildings, which need to 'breathe' a bit.

The smell and the damp may well have vanished when the cause of it was cured, and the building heated and ventilated.

It's not criticism, but something to bear in mind for the future.

No, I think no-one knows what effect the water will have on the newly injected walls and supposed damp proof plaster, hopefully they will do what the person who sold you them said they would.


http://www.spab.org.uk/publications_look.html

 

[NT]

Standing water would cause penetrating damp rather than rising damp. This damp would occur above the water level because the rain water splashes onto the wall as it lands. This is oft confused with rising damp, which is not a common phenomenon.

Once the gutter is fixed, the ground water should drain away, and the wall can dry out if wet. Water does damage walls and plaster, but not quickly, a weeks delay is unlikely to be a problem.

Rising damp diagnoses are mainly used to sell unnecessary work such as injected dpcs and so on, the reality is they dont seem to have much value in terms of preventing damp problems. Unfortunately its a path that many are led up.

It doesnt sound like you have anything to worry about, other than lack of budget for repairs. The good news is that basic terraced PPs can usually be repaired diy at minimal material cost.


NT

 

[arl]

this happened to us when we moved in. soggy bedroom wall, large puddle by bay window.
we fixed the problem with the gutter. everything was dry within 2 weeks and we havnt had a problem since.

 

[Penners]

Laura - the trouble with damp is that nobody can ever predict with any certainty how it's going to behave for any given set of conditions.

If I were you, I would fix that gutter (as you are doing) and then wait to see what happens. Hopefully, this will resolve the problem, but if it doesn't, then post back here again and everyone will try to help you with suggestions for the next step.

But don't expect the results to be instantaneous. Damp can take a fair while to dissipate, particularly at a wet time of the year. In your case, of course, it will be particularly difficult to know what the effect is, because you're looking for a negative result (ie: no damp appearing).

 

[LauraC1979]

Thankyou - very much appreciated. Once the guttering is fixed I am sure it will be fine, it is just horrible buying your first property, spending money trying to do the right thing, rectifying shoddy modernisation work and trying to maintain/re-instate original features just for a heavy week of rain to cause damage which might cost a lot to rectify and ruin your hard work!

I take on board what you say about DPC

 

[Nemesis]

I suspect it will be fine - especially if it is the type with a cementy backing.

I know what it's like - buying a home is always fraught - but too many people are pushed into expensive DPC's when they aren't really required.

It's something hopefully RICS is starting to address.

It's worth reading this site, posting for help, and buying a few SPAB and Victorian Society publications.

SPAB runs a free helpline - don't be put off by the title -i t's for any period property owner, not just those with 'ancient' buildings. The weekend courses for homeowners are very good too.