water draining into basement!

[zebo1973]

Hello there, wonder if anyone would be kind enough to point me in the right directions re an issue Im having with an old (1930's?) basement flat ive just bought. I've been preparing the place the remove issues of damp so am in the process of improving ventilation/installing air recyclers etc but during the recent storm water began to leak through a wall I recently deplastered. I can see plainly that the gutters outside the property are faulty and pouring water straight down on the ground straight outside my property so i reckon this is one of the main causes but my question is....who is the best kind of tradesperson to investigate something like this? I think the whole front of the property needs an assessment re:drainage and that but I want to advise my freeholder on who to get in...I just dont want her to get the gutters sweeped and declare that's her job done.

Basically: Who do I need to get in?

bonus points if you know someone pref in surrey!

Thanks so much

sophie

 

[Zebra]

Now, when you say you deplastered the wall, what was it you removed? Had it been "tanked" previously, with some sort of bitumen / waterproof plaster? Do you think that plaster was original or a previous owners' work? Did the water ingress problem exist before you removed the plaster? Not that you were necessarily incorrect to do so, it's just that someone else may have tried to fix the problem in that way in the past.
If indeed the main problem is the volume of water being directed towards this area from the gutters above, then those gutters would need to be redirected towards a main drain or soakaway. This may not be an easy task, as it would require lots of groundwork. Can you see a drain in the area? Perhaps lift the lid off a manhole cover and try to find out for yourself where the drains go.
Hopefully someone else on here will advise on the legality of directing rainwater towards main drains instead of soakaways. I remember that there is something about this in Building Regulations, I can't remember whether it only applies to new buildings.
A general builder would undertake this kind of work. I'm afraid I can't give any recommendations.

 

[zebo1973]

Thanks for your detailed response Zebra. The plaster was blown on that wall and had to be removed, there was a kind of cementitious material behind it but when I got the skirting boards off they were rotted away, there has been water seeping in for some time it seems. The base of the wall was damp when the skirting boards/plaster came off, and then when we had the tropical style rain recently I could actually see the water come in! Its only at the base of the wall, not further up.

A general builder would hopefully be able to diagnose whats going on, but when i first started getting builders in they started talking about injecting chemicals and all that rubbish. Blackjacking the walls, sealing the walls with waterproof plaster and that....Trying to mask the issues internally without considering the external causes. I just need someone qualified to properly assess the exterior of the property, give it a general drainage diagnosis.... Once the external issues are resolved I plan to lime render it, keep things breathable. But perhaps the bottom of the wall may always susceptible to a little damp -being well below ground level - so may need something more robust at the base...?

Thanks again!

 

[MatthewC]

You want a groundworker - the sort of person who does drains and foundations (the oversite). See http://houseintheenchantedforest.blogspot.co.uk/2011/10/end-of-old-extension.html and scroll down to the lower half to see photos of what a groundworker does. I found mine from the county council list of people approved to do proper dropped kerbs (surprised that such a list exists!).

I see you mention your freeholder but are the gutters on a public pavement or private property? Councils always seem to think that walls abutting the pavement are fair game...

 

[Zebra]

Well it sounds like you're already well aware of the pitfalls of listening to builders! Has the basement been converted into a habitable room, or do you think that it was always intended to be? Basements often do suffer from damp, but I agree that it's best to sort the drainage issue first, and then allow time for the wall to dry, before considering what else might be needed.
Yes, a groundworker, but many general builders do groundworks also. Perhaps get a few in for a quote. Good luck!

 

[plasticpigeon]

Maybe I've been unlucky, but I've found general builders to mainly completely void of knowledge. Bricks come in one size from the local yard, mortar is 3:1 with cement, anything that doesn't fit can be sealed with sqirty foam and covered with plastic trim, that sort of stuff. I know I've got into trouble with Zebra for saying this sort of stuff before, but just look at the state of the buildings in this country, particularly older residential properties in big cities. They are for the most part absolutely appalling, both in the choice of repairs and their execultion. Even something as bread and butter as repointing seems to be hashed up 90% of the time. A general builder is as you have found very unlikely to think beyond botching something up to make it acceptable for a couple of years. The concept of cause and effect would not even register. I honestly think that to get to the root cause of a problem that isn't completely obvious then it is one you will most likely have to investigate yourself, otherwise the useless quick fix will be suggested over and over. It sounds like you already know that a solution which simply stops damp on the surface is unacceptable as if anything it will make the wall behind even worse. If you suspect drains, then you can have these investigated with a camera a bit like an endoscope. However if it is a basement could it not be that the the water table is above floor height. If this is the case you can't hold it back. It might be necessary to have a system where the internal wall is spaced out from the structural wall, and some drainage systen introduced. I know little about such a system, but it seems a sensible way to deal with a basement that isn't sealed from the outside. Perhaps a decent surveyor would be the first port of call. I hope you get to the bottom of the issue as damp is really annoying.

 

[MatthewC]

Maybe I've been unlucky, but I've found general builders to mainly completely void of knowledge. Bricks come in one size from the local yard, mortar is 3:1 with cement, anything that doesn't fit can be sealed with sqirty foam and covered with plastic trim, that sort of stuff. I know I've got into trouble with Zebra for saying this sort of stuff before, but just look at the state of the buildings in this country, particularly older residential properties in big cities. They are for the most part absolutely appalling, both in the choice of repairs and their execultion. Even something as bread and butter as repointing seems to be hashed up 90% of the time. A general builder is as you have found very unlikely to think beyond botching something up to make it acceptable for a couple of years. The concept of cause and effect would not even register. I honestly think that to get to the root cause of a problem that isn't completely obvious then it is one you will most likely have to investigate yourself, otherwise the useless quick fix will be suggested over and over.

I absolutely agree with your sentiments, PP. I used to belong to a fairly well known DIY forum where so-called professionals gave advice to DIYers, but I left after they rubbished the only other person on there who understood about old buildings. It just seems that many "modern" builders not only have no knowledge of breathability etc, but actually are happy to say that it's rubbish and "use some waterproofer/hydrated lime in your mortar instead". As you say, their frequent view is short-term and rarely appropriate to buildings hundreds of years old. Hence the value of this forum - it's helped me a lot!

 

[Zebra]

I know I've got into trouble with Zebra for saying this sort of stuff before

Oh no pigeon, I absolutely agree with you! Builders only do what they know. That's why I've taken the approach you have for the most part: only had trades in when absolutely necessary, and not let anyone touch anything old!
However, if the problem here really is that the gutters drain onto the ground and not into a drain, then that is the very thing that a normal modern builder ought to be capable of fixing!

 

[zebo1973]

Thanks for all the information guys, since I got this flat it's been a steep learning curve, Pete ward's site was quite an eye opener for me (went on a month-long google educating myself after Kenwood "damp proofing experts" wanted 8 grand to strip the plaster in the rooms and inject the bases of the walls - they didnt even step outside the property as they were "diagnosing" the problem. And I've been generally shocked at the standard of knowledge among a lot of the -specialists- I've been getting in to quote through checkatrade, yell, mybuilder and whatever...thankfully there is a wealth of knowledge out there, including this place. I think this basement flat will always be a little damp around the edges (good point about the water table!) but with decent ventilation and drainage there's no reason it can't be absolutely fine to live in. But its about finding the right people to fix it...and weeding out the chancers

I still get angry when I think about that Kenwood quote :shock: