Wall finish - is this as bad as I fear?

[Mrs McG]

So my boiler and all radiators were taken out yesterday and here’s part of a wall fixing for one of the radiators. Have I just opened the proverbial can of worms? The wall has been covered in what looks like styrofoam and is that gypsum plaster? Just for fun, here’s a nail that was used too.

 

[Cubist]

Ahh, the favourite fixing device of the cowboy tradesperson - sadly all too commonly found in period homes.

Is your cottage of timber frame or brick masonry construction? Infill panels in timber frames were often replaced in the 80/90s with a high density expanded foam sheet material that was then plastered and rendered. Could be you've run into that.

 

[Mrs McG]

It’s timber frame. Worth me adding also that the exterior of that wall is concrete render? I am having visions of an external wall merrily rotting away between concrete render one side and gypsum/foam the other, or has my lack of heating made me paranoid?

If it is what you describe, what advice would you give on what’s necessary?

 

[Cubist]

Well, that explains the 6 inch nail fixing. But thankfully they missed everything of any substance - clearly the rawlplugs they were using didn't work so they resorted to brute measures.

These old places are always cans of worms and worse still every time you kick over another stone you'll likely find lots of little nasty wriggly things roaming around. In your shoes my longer term plans would include getting rid of the concrete render - the frame needs to breathe out not in. Are the beams and posts exposed indoors? When was the external render applied? Why was it done? Is there any evidence of damp/water ingress near the joints or peg exit holes indoors?

For now you can make the fixing points of the boiler and radiators sound by injecting a suitable material in to each of the holes using a pressure gun. This will fill up the cavities to allow a stronger and more reliable fixing point Assuming that the new boiler and radiator supports have mounting brackets that have a different fixing pattern it would be wise to do the same when drilling new holes to ensure the new rawlplugs can get a good anchor.

Regarding paranoia - its a permanent state of mind with these old places but its always comforting to remember that new builds today have a life expectancy of just 30 years and your house will very likely outlive all of them.

 

[Mrs McG]

Thank you Cubist, that’s really helpful. Yes, beams and posts internally are all exposed. The external render pre-dates the previous owners who lived here for 34 years and is in good shape with no undue signs of damp according to the surveyor I used when I bought it. No idea why it was first rendered, maybe the owners at the time used the same logic that led to the foam lining paper on internal walls!

 

[Cubist]

Exposed beams and posts internally at gives you a chance to check their general condition. I|ts worth paying particular attention to the pegs, if they are still in situ, to determine their condition and whether any damp is penetrating through them. If the render is in good condition they should be as dry as the timbers they are fixed into - do you have a damp gauge/meter? If any of the pegs have rotted out have the is there any evidence of the internal fixings in place? If they have only been filled with a plaster or render mortar there will be no mechanical connection in the joint which may pose a weakness. New pegs could be installed from the interior but care would need to be taken with both the length and breadth of the new peg to ensure effective penetration and contact between the beam and post mortice and tenon - without undue hammering which could crack the render/plaster.

If there are vacant post holes between the sill plate and posts that's an opportunity to check for the presence of damp inside the mortice/tenon that may indicate damp descending to that level. Rot in the sill plates can be very difficult and costly to repair.

used the same logic that led to the foam lining paper on internal walls!

I can't think that foam lining paper would contribute much to thermal efficiency but... horses, courses, who knows.

 

[Cassie]

Well, that explains the 6 inch nail fixing. But thankfully they missed everything of any substance - clearly the rawlplugs they were using didn't work so they resorted to brute measures.

These old places are always cans of worms and worse still every time you kick over another stone you'll likely find lots of little nasty wriggly things roaming around. In your shoes my longer term plans would include getting rid of the concrete render - the frame needs to breathe out not in. Are the beams and posts exposed indoors? When was the external render applied? Why was it done? Is there any evidence of damp/water ingress near the joints or peg exit holes indoors?

For now you can make the fixing points of the boiler and radiators sound by injecting a suitable material in to each of the holes using a pressure gun. This will fill up the cavities to allow a stronger and more reliable fixing point Assuming that the new boiler and radiator supports have mounting brackets that have a different fixing pattern it would be wise to do the same when drilling new holes to ensure the new rawlplugs can get a good anchor.

Regarding paranoia - its a permanent state of mind with these old places but its always comforting to remember that new builds today have a life expectancy of just 30 years and your house will very likely outlive all of them.

My lovely electrician told me this yesterday-new builds have a life-expectancy of 25-30 years. I was speechless! What about the waste? The carbon footprint?? Where are people going to live??

 

[Lacan07]

My lovely electrician told me this yesterday-new builds have a life-expectancy of 25-30 years. I was speechless! What about the waste? The carbon footprint?? Where are people going to live??

Is that point at which things start to go wrong?

 

[stuart45]

A lot depends on how a property is maintained. Lots of old houses were demolished in slum clearance programmes because of neglect.
I can remember new build houses being criticized ever since I started in the trade as an apprentice. Older tradesmen used to say it was the same when they were young.
The main structural elements are supposed to last for a minimum of 60 years, but could possibly last much longer.

 

[Cubist]

Is that point at which things start to go wrong?

Nope. My daughters house being a case in point. Less than 2 years before poor materials and or workmanship revealed their ugly heads.

 

[Cubist]

My lovely electrician told me this yesterday-new builds have a life-expectancy of 25-30 years. I was speechless! What about the waste? The carbon footprint?? Where are people going to live??

In-built obsolescence was the terms applied to many manufactured goods I think.

The only saving grace to be found in such attitudes is that it indicates a commitment to 'long term planning' among senior business leaders that is otherwise all too lacking in their mindsets. Figures though that the commitment is to long termsmarket opportunity, turnover and profit.