Victorian Slate Roof

[GerardHart]

My missus and I have put in an offer and had it accepted on an upper conversion of a Victorian mansion, circa 1860. It is B listed, and as you'll guess from that, In Scotland.

The house is massive, with a drawing room, lounge, kitchen and huge dining room on one level, and 5 bedrooms and a study on a level up. There are 2 big bathrooms too. If is say that the lounge and drawing room are 27' by 20', and that there are 2 other similar sized conversions in the building you'll begin to guess at the sheer size of the roof!

The house has been owned by a developer for the last 10 months, and I understand that he has done some work on the roof. I spoke with a local surveyor who has been out to the property in the past and he said that it was almost inevitable that a 160 year old roof would soon need relaid, and I should be prepared for a bill of £80000 for that. I'd like to know a) Is it always the case that roof of this vintage will need relaid just because of age, and b) He said that the timbers under the roof will more than likely be rotting in places and that this was more or less inevitable with a property of that age. I am put off and am thinking about whether the risk is worth it. I have asked a roofer to inspect the roof, but the surveyor said that the roofer will not be able to see all of the timbers, for instance those directly under valley gutters which are occluded by plaster. Does anyone have any advice they can offer? We really want to buy this property and restore it to its former glory.

 

[Raylea]

hi there,

You have to go with how you feel, we move into our house about 10 months ago and we have a lot of roofs (4 in all) 1 being new, 1 being over 250 years and replaced,1 being again 250 years original and last 1 150 year original, however just because its old doesn't mean its not in good shape, there is no sarking felt which is not problem, all trusses etc look good, etc etc. However the original nails used to hang the slate are probably rusty and in the future the roof will probably need attention. Im working on the probably being probably and not too soon.

But I don't think it would cost us £80000 to fix, so as I say what is you head saying and don't leave it down to what you heart is saying and wanting, because unless you have got that sort of money, you are going to be stewing as long as you live there about a roof and not enjoying it for what it is.

Hope you choose the right decision for you and keep me posted.
Raylea

 

[Matt Green]

and b) He said that the timbers under the roof will more than likely be rotting in places and that this was more or less inevitable with a property of that age. I am put off and am thinking about whether the risk is worth it. I have asked a roofer to inspect the roof, but the surveyor said that the roofer will not be able to see all of the timbers, for instance those directly under valley gutters which are occluded by plaster. Does anyone have any advice they can offer? We really want to buy this property and restore it to its former glory.

No one can look through plaster, but more to the point, no one should try unless they have a cause to. If the gutters are sound and watertight, leave them alone. A roofer should be able to give you an idea of the condition of the leadwork (if it's been patched, if the joints are good etc).

If present at all, any decay damage will be around the gutters and downpipes. Find out if the developer renewed them and get a quote if he didn't and the roofer feels there is any doubt about their ability to do their job.

Sounds like a great house. Got any pictures?


Matt Green

 

[GerardHart]

Hope that worked[/img]

 

[DaveBrigg]

Blimey, you don't get many of those to the pound.
Our farmhouse is a little smaller than that, (below) but does have quite a large slate roof with some fiddly bits. The total cost of relaying the slates, fitting a breathable membrane, replacing broken slates with matching reclaimed ones and replacing the odd timber was less than a quarter of what you have been quoted.
Get in touch with at least three roofers who have experience of this type of work and get them to give an estimate (prices for the same job can vary immensely). They should be able to get a ladder up for a closer look, and be able to get a reasonable idea of the timbers by looking in the loft. If the work does need doing, I imagine the scaffolding will contribute a significant part of the cost.

 

[Anita]

Wow - what a gorgeous place!!!! However, given that you are looking to purchase the upper conversion - and that there are other conversions in the property, have you had the deeds / lease checked to see whether the other owners will be responsible for sharing the costs of major items such as roof repairs? I know that £80K is extremely steep and it may be that you can get a more competitive quote - but hopefully you will not have to foot the bill for all of it.

Would love to see the "after" pics if you do go ahead.

 

[GerardHart]

Yes, the cost of a new roof would be one third for each owner. There may also be a grant available from historic Scotland. However, even with that it could be a 15k - 20k bill best case scenario.

 

[Nemesis]

Grant??

Hens teeth!

Have you been offered one?

http://www.historic-scotland.gov.uk/index/grants/buildingrepairgrants.htm

 

[GerardHart]

I'm afraid not - all I know is that the current owner has applied for one. There are a few other things that worry me. Chimneys in the bedrooms bricked up (recently) and no vents in place. Render on the walls, blowing quite badly round the entrance. It could be a money-pit, and whilst I am financially OK, I couldn't afford to throw tens of thousands of pounds at the old lady.

 

[Nemesis]

I would certainly not rely on receiving grant aid!

And check all work was done with the appropriate consents. Sound some odd things done for a listed building.

 

[Lime]

I've owned large houses before and the one thing that makes them stand out from the rest is that they had large bills.

A couple of things that concern me.

First, Nemesis makes two good observations.
..don't expect a grant to help you.
Very true, in fact don't expect it at all.
..consents for some odd things (building work).
Yes it is odd that a listed building should have fireplaces stopped up at all recently.
What did the builder do to the roof or anywhere else for that matter?
I'd be much more concerned about his work and the damage done than the possibility of rotten roof timbers.

Second, "the cost of a new roof would be one third for each owner".
Now that is an interesting concept.
The problem from my experience is getting it implemented.
How bad does the roof have to get?
Who decides if a new roof is required?
Why not a patch or minor repair?
What type of roof should it be?
Who organises the work, the permissions and collection of money to pay for it?

Who and how joint owners suffer roof problems can cause an expensive difference of opinion.
After all, those on the lower floor will not think a slight wet patch on your upstairs ceiling that important and certainly not worth £30,000 for them.

 

[Nemesis]

I add re grants - Scotland might be a little different in its grant regime, but I doubt it's so different.

Grants are like hen's teeth, believe me, and private owners are bottom of the pile. Look at the link I gave. If a grant is made, you have to allow public access. The buildings should really be at risk in some way. Community benefit brings a high priority.

An application has been made - doesn't mean it will be granted, and the application isn't by you. So it may be a ploy to get you to think grant aid may be forthcoming...

In England EH usually doesn't give grants to anyone (private ownership) who hasn't owned a building for several years, because it is considered that you should know when you buy that work needs to be done and that should be reflected in the purchase price.

Do ask to see the listed building consents too, for any work carried out. And don't be fobbed off with stuff about the interiors not being listed - they are.

 

[Raylea]

Grants um,

We tried to get help, not interested, told if there was a disabled person living at the property maybe, bingo we have one I said, sorry did we forget to mention have to be on the deeds. So no grant then, no very sorry. UMMM.

Lime you are very correct about the size of bills, we had a gas/elec bill for three months £650 plus, so now we are very shrewd with heating as 16 radiators do run away with your money, hurray for 4 open working open fires downstairs (not making the heating the house with radiators constantly mistake again.)

Raylea

 

[GerardHart]

Had the roofer's opinion. The roof is knackered, the nails are gone, and he thinks the leadwork is very poor indeed. We have pulled out.

 

[Raylea]

Thats a shame, sonds like you were really set on it, did you get a couple of opinions, when we had the winds back in January a few slates moved a long the edge of our roof (because the people we bought of in december 2006 had just stuck them in place) and the roofer we had in said the same to us about the nails, still too late when you live in house, can't pull out. Fingers crossed and not tempting fate all is still in place. . Real shame for you.

Raylea

 

[GerardHart]

Nope, too much risk when there is an option to walk. can I say thanks to everyone for the advice!