Victorian fireplace

[aparry93]

behind the old dot and dabbed wall was this lovely brick chimney. Can anyone recommend the best way to restore this? Also can someone please tell me what the stone arch is? There’s a crack down the middle of it so concerned it isn’t stable. It looks as though during its previous renovation the previous owners tried to line it with bricks and as you can see by the white bricks and there is a dollop of cement which is loose above. Would you recommend taking these inner bricks and concrete out? As I can’t imagine this will be doing the lime any good to breathe.

 

[aparry93]

 

[Cubist]

Hi There,
Stevers, another member here has recently been restoring a similar fireplace and has shared some of his work in the Projects section. I'm sure he would be happy to share his insights. The photos are, to my eyes, not very clear but I'm not convinced that the mass directly above the horizontal row of bricks immediately above the fire opening is stone. Not least because there appears to be a row of bricks above that mass which seem to have been arranged on end as they would be to form a brick arch. I think what you have there is something that was installed when the register plate for the stove was installed. As such, its probably concrete rather than stone.

 

[Stevers]

That would be me then. I've been pondering what your pictures indicate for the age of the house and I'm thinking late 18th century. I think the stones that surround the 'builders opening' have been re-used from something else, possibly from what had previously been a door opening. I'm doubtful if they were intended to be on show in any of the iterations of fireplace your cottage has had. The Victorians probably had the most efficient open fireplaces intended to burn coal with a clay firebacks, throat and solid fronts. In that form I expect it would have had a slate surround and cast iron insert. I think your cottage pre-dates that, so may have originally had one of those Georgian style basket grates, perhaps something to cook on, or just an open fire to burn wood. The interesting surround pictured looks Edwardian in style and may not be original to your home. I'm not one for bare masonry walls, so I'd re-plaster with wooden staff beds, and put in a slate or wood surround, but there's no denying that stoves are more efficient than open fires, so I'm for keeping the stove, as long as the flue is suitably lined.

 

[aparry93]

I removed some more of the plaster today along with the lump of cement which was between the bricks and stone lintel so hopefully these pictures will show you a bit better what I’ve encountered. I can’t decide whether or not to retain the stone surround and remove the lines white bricks. What would you suggest? I’d love to polish up the brick chimney and keep as a feature

 

[aparry93]

I have highlight the ‘stone surround’ which I think is just cement shaped as a stone…

 

[ThornhillMike]

I'd put a nice wooden surround up and clean the bricks above (and leave exposed)....

 

[aparry93]

I'd put a nice wooden surround up and clean the bricks above (and leave exposed)....

Thank you for the suggestion. Best means of cleaning the bricks? Harder stains to get off are the dot and dabs they used

 

[Stevers]

Looks like natural stone to me, the rough finish probably intended as a key for a render coat.

 

[Cubist]

Ah boy, that job suddenly got a lot more ugly and probably much more expensive. Where to begin....

First; whoever butchered that fireplace clearly did not want to, or did not know how to, properly install the register plate that is fixed to the end of the flexible steel flue. It looks like it was just shoved in there with no real thought about how it needed to be fixed and sealed in place. It's not clear whether it provides any support to the flue pipe but it is certainly not preventing debris, detritus, and perhaps the corpses of insects and birds coming down the chimney stack. That aside for the moment I'm presuming that at the end of the day you will not want the abortion of the register plate and the flexible flue to be visible when you've finished the job? And heres why this job suddenly became more costly - cutting stainless steel is never easy and getting a clean and reasonably accurate cut while the pipe is in situ and without dislodging it from its fixing at the top of the stack will be nigh on impossible. Consequently someone will need to get on to the roof to find out what state the fixings are in and to perhaps assist in either lowering the flue pipe so it can be cut and supporting it while the register plate is re-installed or replacing the flue pipe with a new one and new fixings. This is a two person (who know what they are doing) job, plus ladders and scaffolding plus materials - that's not going to be either quick or cheap to arrange. Also, I believe you need to be very careful about how and when you remove the faux brick surround that currently supports the register plate as it may not be clear just how the flue pipe is supported above it - the whole lot could end up in a heap in that room.

Second; it looks like whoever committed that travesty used a power chisel to remove the upper face of what may have once been a fairly fine stone mantle so that they could accommodate the wooden fire surround you previously removed. They made a dreadful mess of the stone, perhaps seriously weakening it in the process and the situation is only made worse since the mantle was 'keyed' into the chimney breast brickwork above so removing it could lead to more disruption of that brickwork. Re-establishing a stone surface to remove the scoring left by the chisel will be no easy job and will almost certainly require specialist tools.

Frankly, you have a few tough decisions to make. Fixing the flue and getting rid of the unsightly pieces of the flexible flue, to my mind, is a no-brainer, but what you do about the stone surround and mantle??

 

[Stevers]

cutting stainless steel is never easy and getting a clean and reasonably accurate cut while the pipe is in situ and without dislodging it from its fixing at the top of the stack will be nigh on impossible.

As an aside, I have surplus single skin stainless steel gas liner in my basement fireplace, will that be a problem to cut too? There's something close to 40' of liner hanging from that basement chimney pot so a fair old weight. We had surplus liner in the Breakfast Room fireplace too, and I don't recall the gas fitter having any problems trimming that to length.

 

[Cubist]

As an aside, I have surplus single skin stainless steel gas liner in my basement fireplace, will that be a problem to cut too? There's something close to 40' of liner hanging from that basement chimney pot so a fair old weight. We had surplus liner in the Breakfast Room fireplace too, and I don't recall the gas fitter having any problems trimming that to length.

A portable sheet metal nibbler or even a jig-saw with suitable blades could do it. The real issues are getting a reliable measurement and manoeuvring such tools in a confined space without disturbing/stressing or breaking the upper mounts of the flue.

 

[malcolm]

It probably depends on what kind of liner it is. For mine a stanley knife blade is sufficient to cut the liner. It's spiral wound so can be peeled away and a wire cutter is good for the last bit.

That register plate is hilarious. They ought to be arched so they can expand and contract with heat. A flat one will go wobbly. The register plate does not support the liner. The liner tends to be hung from the chimney pot and the fixings rely on gravity so are self correcting..

The stove fitters do like their quote to include scaffolding but most often the liner can be lifted a couple of inches to get it on top of a new stove pipe without access to the roof. Obviously there are regs and things.

I would say the surround is stone as it has cut marks on the side and mortar joints. Looks knackered though so some other finish might be best.

 

[aparry93]

Thank you for the suggestion. Best means of cleaning the bricks? Harder stains to get off are the dot and dabs they used

Would you recommend brick acid to clean the bricks? Or just some old fashioned sponge and some soapy water?

 

[noj]

Always try the least damaging route first. A good scrubbing brush and hot water to begin, before reaching for the acid...

 

[aparry93]

 

[aparry93]

View attachment 11017

I cleaned with bristle brush with warm water and then used some gif. Spent about 2hours scrubbing. Any other recommendations as there’s still loads of plaster in the cracks of the brick

 

[Cubist]

I think you need to be clearer about what the problem is. Is it plaster on the faces and embedded in the tiny surface cavities of the faces of the bricks or maybe between them and adhering to the mortar?

 

[aparry93]

Hello, sorry yes it is plaster that’s embedded in the face of the brick. I read another post on here last night and they recommended brick acid and funnily enough I had some from a previous job in the shed. So I decided to give this a good go this morning. This is currently working really well even though it is hard work! Going to go again later and provide some photos. See photo of current progress bearing in mind the bricks haven’t dried out yet as this pic was only taken 10mins after scrubbing with diluted brick acid (ratio 1:1). Would you recommend sealing the bricks at the end? If so what products do you recommend?

 

[Cubist]

Personally I have not used acids or sealants with brickwork so I can't make a recommendation. Others here may have though and hopefully someone will be along soon to offer advice.