Victorian fireplace - exposed brick or plaster?

[EmmaT]

We've got a large fireplace in the living room of our 1850s mid-terrace. It's currently exposed brick, with rather obvious pointing. It's also obviously not drawing properly (evidence of black smoke up outside of fireplace, and it's been suggested that it's too large an opening.

The bedroom above has a traditional Victorian cast iron 'bedroom' fireplace (one of the small ones).

What would you recommend for the larger fireplace? Plaster the outside, fit some sort of fireplace inside the grate? Have tried to post a photo below (sorry isn't close up - wasn't intended just to show fireplace - ignore the piles of bricks etc in there)

 

[middi]

OH..dear, Emma.

The person that built that just created his/her own style and interpretation of a fire place with no understanding as to how even a "mock" Victorian fire place should look like or as to how it should work

There is a chance that the original outline is still there tucked behind that new facade so you can take all that modern stuff off and start again, alternatively, and much chaper, plaster it, pait it, put a mock Victorian front on it and put some flowers in there .

 

[EmmaT]

Well, I'm not sure how much is facade, as the chimney functions. I guess the next step is to measure the dimensions of the chimney breast upstairs and in the roof and check that downstairs matches - that should give us an idea of the actual/'correct' size? This arrangement has clearly been in place for some time, as the bricks behind the fire are heavily blackened, which is of course not to say that it's period/traditional, but that I suspect caution should be used when investigating not to end up with more than we bargained for. Particularly given that the same former owner has corbelled the chimney in the kitchen without properly supporting.

When I say plastering, I'm not intending to go down the route of mock fireplace with some fake flowers in it (I'll choose to take that as an alternative sensible suggestion rather than anything else). More that if it's not possible to start messing with the brickwork, or should it be a repair/replacement for the original fireplace it might go some way to producing something more in-keeping if the brickwork wasn't exposed?

 

[thiambal]

Be warned when measuring the chimney breast upstairs - it is likely to be a few inches narrower that the one downstairs! So a smaller affair upstairs does not necessarily indicate that a facade has been added downstairs.

 

[EmmaT]

Useful to know! Will aim for average of measurement of chimney in loft space, bedroom and living room!

 

[Geoffrey]

Hi Emma,

It's a little hard to tell at that distance but I wouldn't be so sure that's a facade. I have 3 victorian or (maybe a little earlier) fireplaces in my house - all of them red brick. The kitchen one which would have contained the range has sadly been knocked down and rebuilt much closer to the wall (with only a fake chimney left) by a previous vandal - oops,sorry - owner. Of the others, the true victorian one was definitely plastered over until recently although the hearth would always have been open and is in red brick too, as is the smoking (or maybe salt?) shelf at the back of it. We think that when this fireplace and chimney was added the owners lined the hearth of the earliest (16/17th century) one in red brick to match. It is a dilemma whether or not to replaster the victorian one and how to treat the opening were we to do so. I think we'll just keep living with the exposed brick for now.
As to the draw - and the size of the hearth there is a formula for calculating the maximum opening as determined by the size of the flue, which a chimney specialist would be able to tell you - I'm afraid I can't remember it. Have you checked to see if there is a lining in the flue - theses are often added if people have a woodburning stove fitted (or gas fire I guess). If this is the case and then the stove has been removed in favour of an open fire then the flue would quite likely be too small for the size of hearth.

 

[EmmaT]

Thanks Geoffrey. You're right - a bit of measurement and investigation suggests it's not a facade. The bricks look like they've been plastered and then had the plaster removed in the past, as the faces are in pretty bad condition. We've got to get the chimney swept, so we'll see what difference that makes and take it from there. There's no evidence of lining in the chimney (as can see brick a long way up, so I think we just need to make sure that that the size is in proportion, then consider aesthetics! It's quite a small room (victorian cottage rather than house, IYSWIM), so plastering will make it quite a bit lighter...

 

[Lime]

If the design did not include a throat or venturi to the chimney then it will smoke.
If you examine most functioning fireplaces you will see near the top of the fire opening a protruding part of the fireback that restricts the flue.
This is esential for most chimneys to operate correctly.
Brick built fireplaces are often lacking this important part.

Also if the chimney pot is overtopped by trees or part of the house then down draughts will occur when the wind blows.
The trees can be some distance away from the house to cause this effect.
The chimney pot should be higher than anything near it or down draughts will occur.

 

[EmmaT]

Chimney pot is clear height wise, nearest tree that's taller than it is over 100ft away, so hopefully should be OK.

Peering up the chimney with a hefty torch shows that it narrows significantly just above the fireplace - though from the left rather than from the back.

We've not actually been able to light the fire yet - only moved in midsummer - so will get the chimney swept (which, from the state of it, I suspect will help significantly) and see how we get on.

 

[Geoffrey]

Best to build your first fire well back in the hearth and see how good the draw is. The first fire we had at our last house resulted in a house full of smoke, all the alarms going and the fire brigade arriving - just because we were not familiar with the fireplace!

 

[Nemesis]

The flue will go to one side if there's another fireplace above. It should narrow and 'gather' from the wider opening to the narrow.

A cold chimney won't pull well either. In fact it's all a bit of a black art and you may find it does smoke unless there's a very strong draught. That brings its own problems. You can buy chimney fans but they tend to be noisy. special chimney pots can help smoke blowing back though.

You also need a fireproof protruding hearth... or it can be dangerous.

Many find in the end a small stove is more use. Machine Mart does a small sized Franklin type you can use as an open fire.

http://www.machinemart.co.uk/product.asp?p=090310200&r=2139&g=118


Here's another suggestion:

http://www.flamewavefires.co.uk/freestanding-gas-burning-open-convector-fire-013.aspx

Or


http://www.flamewavefires.co.uk/made-to-measure-open-convector-fire-021.aspx

 

[EmmaT]

Fantastic - thanks for the links. I'm planning on a wood burning stove for the kitchen when we get the chimney there reinstated so that's really useful, even if we don't get one in the main room.

We're lucky enough to have inherited a large piece of slate, used by the previous owners as a fireproof hearth. Though it's unfortunately cracked, it looks a good size so should be a good starting point. Almost can't wait for winter now!

 

[Nemesis]

I know they are a bit expensive but the tortoise type fires would give you an open fire with a great deal more efficiency than just a basket, and the problems of getting the fire to draw would be eliminated. I think they look simple timeless and are fine for period buildings.

We have a large Franklyn (not a MM one - ours was horribly more expensive sadly and without glass doors) and we have no problems apart from rare occasions with blowbacks, and it's so cosy. Gets very warm! I like it because we can have the joys of an open fire in the evenings without having to see the ash the next day. Housework isn't my strong point. A small firescreen would work though.

A closed stove is of course more efficient still, but may be too hot in a small room.

The brick on your chimney looks fine - unless you hate it I'd try to tidy up the pointing. No probably it isn't authentic left exposed but it's done now.



[Open Image]