Victorian Architraving

[Ixia]

Any recommendations for companies (pref. online) that produce reproduction Victorian door surrounds. The only company I can find that offers something similar is Australian!

There's a photo on this thread.

http://www.periodproperty.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=11902&start=15

Thanks. Must got to bed now..........

 

[LadyArowana]

I thought it was possible to have something machined to order. I know my builder had an old skirting board profile specifically reproduced for a client to match some existing. Not sure if the same goes for architrave, but it wouldn't seem much of a stretch.

 

[Feltwell]

Dresser's have a good range - other than that Google is your friend, there are quite a few online mouldings suppliers now. If you're trying to match something exisiting exactly then it may be that getting some specially machined is your best option. Most joinery shops will do this if they have a spindle moulder, but they will need to get the cutter specially made - which when I enquired was about £100.

Alternatively, you may be able to find a stock profile which is close enough to what you want, or that can be modified to what you want.

http://www.dresser.uk.com/shop.asp?s=5&ss=13

http://www.periodmouldings.co.uk/

http://www.diytimberpacks.com/skirting-ardan-packs.php

http://www.skirtingboardsdirect.com/prod1.asp?ID=321

 

[Ixia]

Thanks for the replies. I'm thinking I may have to fettle something myself. I suspect the moulding is in two pieces any way and I've seen something very similar for the first half.

 

[Nigel Watts]

The architrave is similar to my early Victorian one which, as you rightly say, was made in two pieces - flat, wide piece with the bead on the inner edge onto which the outer ogee moulding is nailed.

Manufactured ogee mouldings are readily available but the chance of getting a very good match is not high as they do vary quite a bit. I had to get a length of both elements made for my house. I am not sure who the builder used but they were certainly bespoke. A good carpentry shop should be able to run these mouldings for you.

 

[Penners]

As you and Nigel have mentioned, these complex Victorian mouldings were invariably made up of two or more parts. Here's another company who offer a wide range of such mouldings - you might find some that you could combine to produce something close to your requirements:

http://www.wintherbrowne.co.uk/uploads/pdfs/distinctive-brochure.pdf

It would certainly be possible to get a special moulding run by a local specialist joinery shop. If you do this, just remember to order enough mouldings to cover your every possible need within the one run. The cost of setting up the machinery is a substantial part of the overall price, and if you place a repeat order you'll have to pay that charge all over again.

 

[Feltwell]

It would certainly be possible to get a special moulding run by a local specialist joinery shop. If you do this, just remember to order enough mouldings to cover your every possible need within the one run. The cost of setting up the machinery is a substantial part of the overall price, and if you place a repeat order you'll have to pay that charge all over again.

If it's something that can be produced on a spindle moulder, the main cost is the specially produced cutter. My local joinery shop charges for the cutter but then gives it you to keep, in case you want more of that moulding in future. Still easier to get it all made in one go, but it's an option to ask about if you don't want to do that.

 

[Moo]

My local joinery shop charges for the cutter but then gives it you to keep, in case you want more of that moulding in future.

What an excellent idea - why isn't it a routine practice everywhere?

 

[Penners]

I agree. In fact, I would demand it.

 

[Feltwell]

What an excellent idea - why isn't it a routine practice everywhere?

Probably because a) it makes you go back to them b) in typical man-fashion, "it might come in useful one day" !

The joinery shop I use is very much a small business, 1 chap & his helper, and are very friendly. I see no reason why you couldn't ask for the cutter though - I don't know much about spindle moulders but I believe the cutters are fairly universal, so you could use it elsewhere in future.

Of course if you can find a joinery shop that can produce the mouldings for you without the expense of a new cutter (£100 or so) then better still! If it's close to something they've already got then "adapting" the finished product with a router or plane may be possible.

 

[Penners]

I don't know much about spindle moulders but I believe the cutters are fairly universal

A qualified yes to that. If they get a complete, solid TCT moulding block made (which is unlikely for a single job) then it should fit most standard spindle moulders. A 30mm shaft diameter is the norm. If they use just a pair of cutters, then these may not be useable in all kinds of block.

You may save money if you ask whether the company can hand-grind a pair of high-speed steel cutter knives for you. I'm rather out of date with this, and I suspect that the old Whitehill type of cutter block is now illegal (badly fitted cutters could fly out at something approaching the speed of light), but I think there are now serrated alternatives. It could be worth asking.

 

[Moo]

Careful, Penners - you're letting your expertise show!

 

[Penners]

A chap has to hang on by his fingernails to what little remains.

 

[AMc]

My joinery company who made the vinery offered to match the moulding on my deep skirtings in two ways - using the best match they had in their cutter collection or by manufacturing the correct cutter. Manufacturing the cutter was quite expensive £100 sounds about right. They mentioned that once upon a time they'd have cut the profile into a lump of steel and run off a few metres for me but this was now not something that their health and safety insurance would allow them to do - I see no reason to thin this wasn't true.
I didn't ask about the keeping the cutter - it seems to me that if you pay for it then you may be able to ask for it, but they may offset some of the cost assuming it will be used on another job at another time - as long as they have it available to you at no extra cost I don't see a problem with letting them keep it?

My local builders yard also has a carpenter who comes in to do odd jobs on their workshop machinery and he ran me off what I needed for £100 for about 6 metres of deep skirting matching the existing moulding exactly - I suspect he must have used the more dangerous approach as the wood was over £50 and it must have taken a couple of hours at £20 an hour.

It wasn't until we'd been here quite a long time that my carpenter pointed out that the architraves we'd assumed were authentic were in fact a modern stock torus skirting profile built up with an ogee architrave - both bearing the stickers on the back from Travis Perkins when we moved a door

 

[Penners]

the architraves we'd assumed were authentic were in fact a modern stock torus skirting profile built up with an ogee architrave

The Victorians certainly used both torus and ogee profiles, and Travis Perkins claim to trace their history back to 1797.

So that's a truly historic combination of mouldings you have there! :wink:

 

[Feltwell]

bearing the stickers on the back from Travis Perkins when we moved a door

Travis Perkins claim to trace their history back to 1797.

If there's a barcode on those stickers you could always apply to the barcode registry to discover if it is a genuine Georgian or Victorian barcode.....

 

[Feltwell]

Just to show the value of shopping around locally......

This morning I went into a joinery shop I'd not used before, to see how much they'd charge to machine up some architrave - as my usual supplier didn't have the right cutter. An old boy comes wandering out of the workshop, takes one look at the bit of architrave in my hand and says "You come from Wellington, that's a Smiths & Bloggs moulding that is, I started my apprenticeship with them when I was 14. They were in Wellington on Church Street. I bet your house dates from about 1900. I've got a bloke pestering me to machine up a load of that for him this week, desperate he is. I did a load of that a few years ago, a Victorian place in XXX Road it was."

Turns out the place from "a few years ago" was the other half of my semi. I'm glad he kept the cutters.

I'm off to buy a lottery ticket now........

 

[Penners]

Buy one for me while you're at it, Feltwell. I'll pay you back out of my winnings.

:wink: