I'm looking for a number of people spread across the UK who would kindly compare the tongue and groove profile of my floorboards in the attached photo, with floorboards in their 'neck of the woods'. This is because I am trying to establish whether the 'V' shape of my floorboards t&g is common throughout the UK or not. I do have a very good reason for asking.
- Thread starter Model T
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I'm looking for a number of people spread across the UK who would kindly compare the tongue and groove profile of my floorboards in the attached photo, with floorboards in their 'neck of the woods'. This is because I am trying to establish whether the 'V' shape of my floorboards t&g is common throughout the UK or not. I do have a very good reason for asking.CliffordPope
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I don't see the difference between your two pictures. Both have the same angle of V, but obviously the tongue has to be a little bit shallower than the groove.
Any T&G boards I have used, 1880s and modern, have square section tongues and grooves. The boards have to be presented exactly edge-on, or they won't push together, and once joined, will hold without falling apart.
I have come across boards that have the groove in the centre of the edge, not offset. These are better IMHO because then you can turn the board so that the rings are always orientated the correct way up.
Any T&G boards I have used, 1880s and modern, have square section tongues and grooves. The boards have to be presented exactly edge-on, or they won't push together, and once joined, will hold without falling apart.
I have come across boards that have the groove in the centre of the edge, not offset. These are better IMHO because then you can turn the board so that the rings are always orientated the correct way up.
Thanks for that Clifford. the two photo's are my mistake, must've double clicked or something.
I've taken a fair number of floorboards up in my time and they've all had 'V' t&g's, however these without exception were all in the East Riding of Yorkshire. The strange thing is that I've not found one person yet whether joiner or builder who knows of tapered tongue and groove, hence posting my request to see if anyone in other parts of the country have seen them.
Btw, the floorboard on the left in the photo is one from my house and is 150 years old or so, the one on the right is a couple of years old and part of a load I bought off the shelf from a local sawmill. Even though there's 150 years difference between the two, the t&g and it's offset are identical.
I've taken a fair number of floorboards up in my time and they've all had 'V' t&g's, however these without exception were all in the East Riding of Yorkshire. The strange thing is that I've not found one person yet whether joiner or builder who knows of tapered tongue and groove, hence posting my request to see if anyone in other parts of the country have seen them.
Btw, the floorboard on the left in the photo is one from my house and is 150 years old or so, the one on the right is a couple of years old and part of a load I bought off the shelf from a local sawmill. Even though there's 150 years difference between the two, the t&g and it's offset are identical.
Penners
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As others have said, 'V' t&g boards are not uncommon. The shape makes them easier to assemble, easier to take apart and - when machined properly - ensures a good tight fit when the tongue is pushed home.
Thanks Penners and middi for your info, perhaps you would like to view a posting on the same subject I made a year ago on Ukworkshops forum http://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/t-g-floorboards-t65656.html, it may help to explain the confusion and why I posted here on Period Property.
What I find very troubling is that no one in the whole of the UK appears to supply new floorboards to a customer's own specification, in essence we are left with very poor quality Wickes, B&Q and Travis Perkins products which simply do not match up with existing period boards.
What I find very troubling is that no one in the whole of the UK appears to supply new floorboards to a customer's own specification, in essence we are left with very poor quality Wickes, B&Q and Travis Perkins products which simply do not match up with existing period boards.
CliffordPope
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How fascinating. I've never really given it much thought, just been aware from time to time sorting out a bit of board from my miscellaneous stock of hoarded boards that some won't fit because the tongues are too wide, that you usually have to get them the right way up, and that occasionally they fit but aren't level because one has a centre tongue and one an offset.
But I've never bought new, just used reclaimed boards usually salvaged from skips.
If all else fails of course you can plane a tongue off. But it needs care. A splintered tongue, or a broken tongue stuck in a groove, can lift suddenly and spike your hand when planing.
But I've never bought new, just used reclaimed boards usually salvaged from skips.
If all else fails of course you can plane a tongue off. But it needs care. A splintered tongue, or a broken tongue stuck in a groove, can lift suddenly and spike your hand when planing.
there are very few " sawmills" left that machine goods to customer spec, It just confirms the fact that, like everything else, we are sliding into the more cost efficient " mass production" world in which we are encouraged to build or consume with what is available as opposed to the more expensive customised option.
As to the tapered floorboards, there are a number of good woodworking shops still going that will manufacture tapered T & G boards albeit a lot more expensive. Also,the much simpler standard tooling required for a spindle moulder for the simple T & G boards is a third of the cost for the more complicated and expensive tapered T & G. ( I paid £ 750 for tapered tooling as opposed to £240 for basic T & G). Tolerances for the tapered T & G boards are much more accurate and much easier to lay with a " secret" nail gun. A lot of the modern high quality tapered T & G Boards are imported from overseas and some suppliers offer customers the choise of boards, finish and type of T & G required ( ie-secret nailing or not)
Middi
As to the tapered floorboards, there are a number of good woodworking shops still going that will manufacture tapered T & G boards albeit a lot more expensive. Also,the much simpler standard tooling required for a spindle moulder for the simple T & G boards is a third of the cost for the more complicated and expensive tapered T & G. ( I paid £ 750 for tapered tooling as opposed to £240 for basic T & G). Tolerances for the tapered T & G boards are much more accurate and much easier to lay with a " secret" nail gun. A lot of the modern high quality tapered T & G Boards are imported from overseas and some suppliers offer customers the choise of boards, finish and type of T & G required ( ie-secret nailing or not)
Middi
Penners
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I've encountered tapered t&g in at least one of the houses that I've renovated, and I am fairly sure that I found it in a second one, too.
There are companies who will machine a run of timber for you to your own specification. Of course, it will end up considerably more expensive than buying a standard moulding "off the shelf" because they will have to make special cutters and set up a machine specially for your run - all of that adds tooling and time cost. But it can be done.Model T said:
Toby Newell
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IMO the quality of the timber and how fast it was grown and whether it is given time to acclimatise properly is more important for dimensional stability than tongues and grooves.
All things being equal tongues will result in less cupping but pine stock these days is soft fibrous rubbish, I never use and would never use it.
If a customer wants a new softwood floor I would use Douglas Fir or Pitch pine. Modern pine floor boards are cheap shiplap rubbish.
I like the way you have the growth rings alternating up and down in the two boards to counteract the cupping and warping... if that was intentional, well done.
All things being equal tongues will result in less cupping but pine stock these days is soft fibrous rubbish, I never use and would never use it.
If a customer wants a new softwood floor I would use Douglas Fir or Pitch pine. Modern pine floor boards are cheap shiplap rubbish.
I like the way you have the growth rings alternating up and down in the two boards to counteract the cupping and warping... if that was intentional, well done.