Very off-topic - internet privacy

[Feltwell]

Bit of advice required from all you techie types.....

My real name, despite being very English (there is an area of Norfolk called my surname) is very unusual. This, coupled with a not particularly way out but not very common Christian name, means that I have it on good authority - the Metropolitan Police, that's another story - that there is only 1 other person in the UK with the same name as me.

He is an elderly gent and I doubt if he's online - if you perform any kind of internet search on my name, UK and International, every single direct result returned is me.

Not a problem until I applied for planning permission. The local authority posts all applications online - which means that if you Google my name now, the first return you get is my full home address. I've got no great reason to hide, but in the course of my work I do occasionally have to discipline or dismiss people, and I often get called to hear appeals against disciplinary decisions - so I'd prefer that my home details remained private.

Is there any point in protesting to the council concerned to get the details taken off their website, or have my details now entered the cyberspace for good, forever to be Googled?

 

[Flyfisher]

I doubt the council will be too sympathetic. As I understand it, the planning process is inherently public so it's inevitable that the information becomes public - indeed, it's the council's responsibility to bring such things to wider public attention. Your planning details were probably also published in the local papers and maybe other publications as well. The web, of course, permits easier and faster access to such information, but it's basically already public domain and I don't see how you could prevent that.

But, once the cat is out of the bag, so to speak, I suspect it's pretty much impossible to put it back. Info can be copied across many different servers in many different countries so even if there was some regulatory mechanism that could 'order' the information to be removed, actually doing so - and verifying it - would probably be impossible in practice. And even when stuff is removed from websites, there are archiving projects around the world (e.g. "The Wayback Machine") that maintain snapshots for historical purposes.

But everyone is in the same boat so there is a fair bit of safety in numbers. After all, someone can only exploit a particularly name if they already know it in the first place. In which case there are telephone directories, electoral registers, etc., that would reveal much the same associated information, albeit perhaps not quite so fast.

 

[Feltwell]

Hmm - I had a feeling that once published that was it, thanks for the fulsome reply FF. I don't mind the planning stuff being public domain, it's the link between my name and address that grieves me slightly - if you searched on my road name and town I would expect it to return planning applications.

I knew I should have been called John Smith.......

 

[biffvernon]

Is it not the case that you don't have to give your own name when applying for planning permission. The application can be submitted by someone else designated as 'the Agent'?

Or there really can't be much to stop you using a pseudonym? Would that be illegal in such a circumstance?

Google "biff vernon" and you just get me and a character in an old very B movie from Hollywood. But of course I wouldn't apply for planning permission - it only seems to rattle their cages

 

[FamilyWiggs]

I think the wider problem is that however carefully you manage your online identity, it is what the third parties do with your information that is outwith your direct control - eg planning application data online. Whilst twas ever thus, and you could be tracked dwon through phone books, electoral roll records, etc, etc, it is the sheer extent, speed and connectedness of the electrickal interweb databases that seem to make this a bigger issue today.

Unless you live in a Faraday cage, never go online, never use electronic payment means, drive through a toll or use a store loyalty card, then it is pretty much impossible to live anonymously anymore.

Just wait til we have those "voluntary" ID cards (which you can decline unless you want to renew your passport).

 

[Flyfisher]

Unless you live in a Faraday cage, never go online, never use electronic payment means, drive through a toll or use a store loyalty card, then it is pretty much impossible to live anonymously anymore.

And, rather perversely, anyone living in such a way, or at least trying to, is more likely to become marked out as "suspicious" or having something to hide.

Just wait til we have those "voluntary" ID cards (which you can decline unless you want to renew your passport).

Don't get me started. How long before they decide to implant a chip under the skin instead of just into a passport. All the technology exists today and is widely proven in dogs, horses etc. Of course, in a liberal democracy it wouldn't be possible to "force" such a thing on people and everyone would have the option to refuse . . . . unless you wanted a passport . . . or an NI number . . . or claim any benefits.

 

[Feltwell]

The planning application was submitted by an agent, but you have to put your details as well as the agents details. At least the council blanked out my mobile and home phone numbers!

I tend to opt for privacy given the choice - so I'm ex-directory, registered on the Telephone Preference Service (how I detest marketing cold calls.... :evil: ), etc etc.

 

[Penners]

Google "biff vernon" and you just get me and a character in an old very B movie from Hollywood.

Oh, damn! I thought you were one and the same.

My real name, despite being very English (there is an area of Norfolk called my surname) is very unusual. This, coupled with a not particularly way out but not very common Christian name

From which slender clues, my dear Watson, I deduce that the perpetrator's name is actually Gustavus Holkham.

 

[FamilyWiggs]

From which slender clues, my dear Watson, I deduce that the perpetrator's name is actually Gustavus Holkham.

And I also deduce that he came in through the yellow door.

It was a lemon entry, Watson.

 

[Feltwell]

It was a lemon entry, Watson.

Groan!

From which slender clues, my dear Watson, I deduce that the perpetrator's name is actually Gustavus Holkham.

Almost - it's Boris Bedford-Level actually...

 

[FamilyWiggs]

Groan!

I've waited thirty-old years to tell that schoolboy gem! It's made my day.

I need only the most simple of pleasures!

 

[worms]

Unless you live in a Faraday cage, never go online, never use electronic payment means, drive through a toll or use a store loyalty card, then it is pretty much impossible to live anonymously anymore.

Strangely enough, it is only very recently that I have overtaken my grandfather (of the same name) in hits on google and he had been dead a good 40 years before any of the above* started!

Is there a gap in the market for a website that lists a jumble of names and addresses to throw people of the scent?

*OK he was a long time after Faraday, but the rest apply!

 

[Inspector John]

Big Brother is watching YOU!

Be prepared for a visit from the "Thought police"

Have your ID card ready

If you have no ID you will be SORN (Statutory Off Registar Notification) and condemed to the cement works :evil: "THE THOUGHT POLICE"

Have a nice day

 

[Gervase]

Tell me about it! There's not a lot you can do other than to make a note to self not to sound off or rant in any way that can be traceable back online, including local newspaper letters pages, forums like this and website feedback. Facebook (which I joined at the insistence of a smashing labourer I hired a couple of summers back) isn't a terribly good idea either, I've found, as Google trawls that assiduously.
The only real answer is to change your name to John Brown, Bill Gates or Windows XP. That way you can sink into blissful anonymity with billions of Google hits to cushion you.

 

[Flyfisher]

Big brother is not yet quite as omniscient as the doomsayers would sometimes suggest, but give it time.

It's often stated how many CCTV cameras are dotted around our cities but in practice they are not all monitored in real-time and are mainly useful for retrospective analysis. The next big thing in CCTV will be automated surveillance with computers analysing all the information in real-time and generating specific alerts in accordance with the specified criteria. There is loads of research going on into such systems and various commercial products already exist. London Underground has already trialled systems to automatically identify abandoned bags, for example, or certain behaviours that people exhibit when contemplating suicide. Face-recognition is also a big area of research. Clearly, it's much more practical to have an alarm alerting a CCTV operator to something of specific interest than to expect ranks of people to remain alert while staring at CCTV screens on the off-chance of something happening.

Number-plate recognition systems are also now very mature and mobile phones can be located to within a few tens of yards using cell-triangulation - and that's without the current trend of incorporating GPS receivers - something actually being mandated by law in the USA. So we all leave a rather visible 'digital footprint' as we go about our daily lives. But by trying to actively 'hide' we can, perversely, become more visible to any monitoring bodies and actually attract attention - why does that person only ever use cash? Why do they have an unregistered sim-card in their mobile phone?

As for online activity, employers now routinely search the web for employee and potential-employee activity. Even if you're not actively posting stuff yourself, that drunken night out with the lads could end up being immortalised online courtesy of a friend's camera phone without you even knowing about it. OK, trivial example, perhaps, but you get the idea.

That's if you actually believe in all this 'big brother' stuff, of course. :wink:

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/facebook-can-ruin-your-life-and-so-can-myspace-bebo-780521.html

 

[Juju]

When I google my name, it comes up with lots of hits because as an academic I've published books and papers but what annoys me is all these companies that take the info and put it in databases sort of pseudo Linked In/Facebook style that make it look like I've added myself to them and invite people to comment/rate my work! The other thing that comes up on Google is a planning permission for my old house about 8-10 years ago. So yes it is a bit scary how much is in the public domain.

 

[Penners]

Googling my name produces a response that I've never seen before.

It just says "Please stop wasting my time".

Yes, we're all paranoid about revealing personal details of any kind to Facebook, the Government, local authorities, bin men, the milkman...

...but just give anyone half a chance of their 15 minutes of fame... :?

 

[AMc]

Bit of advice required from all you techie types.....

Is there any point in protesting to the council concerned to get the details taken off their website, or have my details now entered the cyberspace for good, forever to be Googled?

As a web consultant I occasionally discovered things in anonymous data that shouldn't be there (email addresses, IP addresses) and there were very few organisations that were clearly and carefully following the correct procedures for dealing with breaches.
If you weren't informed, didn't consent to or weren't offered the option to opt out of having your full name and address published on their website then it seems to me that the council may have failed to act properly under data protection legislation. I'm not an expert but I see no harm in asking the question esp. as your circumstances are fairly unusual it's entirely probable that no one has questioned it before. The planning department should at the least be able to explain how they are complying with the Data Protection Act.

It used to be common to publish this type of information in papers etc. but actually retrieving it shortly after the fact required a lot of turning up in person and submitting requests. The advent of 'the web' obviously makes that process much, much easier and also adds the ability to easily search through historic data.

The cat may be out of the bag with this application but removing it from their site will help the information to disappear slowly over time. Although there are archives and cross references the internet is not an archive of every piece of text ever posted and if your details are properly expunged then you should 'fade away' over time.

I too have an unusual name combination (one of two within the M25) but thankfully the other is a Holyoaks actor so I'm googleproof!

 

[MdB]

The other person in the country with my name is a morris dancer....

I can't decide if this is a good thing or a bad thing...

 

[FamilyWiggs]

For any prospective employers out there googling me, there a lots of other people with my (admittedly unusual at first sight) name; all of whom appear to lead a very irresponsible and debauched existence. Unlike me. Oh yes.