Vertically sliding sash shutters

[Cassie]

Hi all, my windows were originally wooden sash windows. Sadly, they were replaced with upvc ones long before we moved in. However, they left the original architrave and what I think are sliding sash shutter boxes. No shutters unfortunately nor weights, but the wheels for the cords are there. The windowsill is hinged to open the box. Ive asked the neighbours-no one else has got these despite the houses (mostly turned into flats!) being near identical externally. My question is, would it be possible to reinstate shutters without having to take the window frame apart ?

 

[Cubist]

If internal that should be simple enough. But I see that one of the houses opposite has them outside. Is that what you're thinking?

 

[Cassie]

Ah no, the houses opposite are a ditternt mixed bag. This side is all practically identical semis. The shutters here would slide up from inside the box internally. I’ve googled every link about this but got nowhere, only found one image on a drawing, not even real life! But I’d rather make shutters than finish off the 11ft long curtains I’ve started

 

[Cassie]

 

[Cassie]

Found an actual picture of what I think it is. Was probably a bit old fashioned when my house was built! Possible without taking the whole frame apart? Or should I get back to the sewing machine?

 

[Feltwell]

It should be possible without taking the whole frame apart I'd say, part of the interior trim - the equivalent of the sash bead - probably need to come off. It's just a sash window inside a sash window really, if you get my drift, if you have a look at the thread I did on sash restoration for beginners, it's the same principles.

https://www.periodproperty.co.uk/forum/threads/sash-windows-repair-dont-replace.16963/

However - to me there could be some better news.....

When the heathen troglodytes take out perfectly repairable sash windows and put in cheap plastic rubbish, they do it in 2 ways:-

• Rip the entire sash box out (the frame part) and put in an entire new UPVC window and cill. This is how most are done, original window is all gone forever.
• Take the sliding sashes out of the original box frame, leaving that frame intact - then insert a UPVC window into that frame.

Now I can't tell completely from your pictures, but it looks like they may well have done method 2, in which case it's possible to take the plastic window out and put sliding timber sashes back in again..........

 

[RBailey]

Hi all, my windows were originally wooden sash windows. Sadly, they were replaced with upvc ones long before we moved in. However, they left the original architrave and what I think are sliding sash shutter boxes. No shutters unfortunately nor weights, but the wheels for the cords are there. The windowsill is hinged to open the box. Ive asked the neighbours-no one else has got these despite the houses (mostly turned into flats!) being near identical externally. My question is, would it be possible to reinstate shutters without having to take the window frame apart ?

The shutters would normally live in the box below the window, what makes you think they are not there?

The lazy / easy option would have been for the builders just to cut the cords and nail the lid down.

I'd lift the flap / window sill and have a look at what is left inside the box.
If it looks promising I'd then take the staff beads off the sides (The vertical strips that divide the channels) and see what the weight box is like.

Good luck and keep posting pictures.

 

[Cassie]

I have opened the boxes-all empty, but dry. They back directly onto the exterior wall. I asked a visiting joiner what he thought-said he’d never seen anything like it and it would not be possible. I’m ignoring that and trying to figure it out!

 

[Cassie]

It should be possible without taking the whole frame apart I'd say, part of the interior trim - the equivalent of the sash bead - probably need to come off. It's just a sash window inside a sash window really, if you get my drift, if you have a look at the thread I did on sash restoration for beginners, it's the same principles.

https://www.periodproperty.co.uk/forum/threads/sash-windows-repair-dont-replace.16963/

However - to me there could be some better news.....

When the heathen troglodytes take out perfectly repairable sash windows and put in cheap plastic rubbish, they do it in 2 ways:-

• Rip the entire sash box out (the frame part) and put in an entire new UPVC window and cill. This is how most are done, original window is all gone forever.
• Take the sliding sashes out of the original box frame, leaving that frame intact - then insert a UPVC window into that frame.

Now I can't tell completely from your pictures, but it looks like they may well have done method 2, in which case it's possible to take the plastic window out and put sliding timber sashes back in again..........

I think you’re right Feltwell. It’s a conservation area and most of the houses still have the original wooden sash windows. As developers have bought them up and turned into flats a few have been replaced with plastic but they presumably had to make them look like the originals. Not a good look in my opinion! The semi-good news is that they simply dumped the old windows in the garden behind a shed, glass and all. I haven’t managed to hack through the jungle enough to get one out yet, but could give me ideas on construction. I’d dearly love to put proper windows back in but that will have to wait a while-cash needed for functional bathroom currently . You never know, I might find some of the old shutters as well… Or I might catch one of the neighbours/developers ripping their windows out .
I’ll read the guide and have a think , thank you

 

[Cassie]

Great article on sash windows Feltwell!
It’s given me some inspo on how to tackle the porch window as part of the whole restoration. Not a sash, but wooden and knackered. It’s been a total saga so far- people looking and not quoting, some teeth sucking, and one bloke that took a deposit and disappeared! Maybe the only way I’ll get it done is by myself!

 

[Drayton]

I'm no help at all with restoration but we had a shutter like that in the house we lived in till I was 11 - I'd never come across one, or any mention of one, since. We rarely raised it and when we did it worried me as it was painted brown and looked very, very heavy and sombre suspended there in a way I didn't quite understand. (Casement windows so I wasn't otherwise aware of sash cords etc.) I'm not sure of the date of the house but assume it was late-nineteenth century; a bit arts-and-craftsy looking.

I'm also surprised they bothered to drag it out from its hiding place below the window. What a shame. Perhaps it is now lurking somewhere in the undergrowth with the window frames? Finger crossed - them you would have something to replicate even if it is too far gone to repair.

 

[Cassie]

I'm no help at all with restoration but we had a shutter like that in the house we lived in till I was 11 - I'd never come across one, or any mention of one, since. We rarely raised it and when we did it worried me as it was painted brown and looked very, very heavy and sombre suspended there in a way I didn't quite understand. (Casement windows so I wasn't otherwise aware of sash cords etc.) I'm not sure of the date of the house but assume it was late-nineteenth century; a bit arts-and-craftsy looking.

I'm also surprised they bothered to drag it out from its hiding place below the window. What a shame. Perhaps it is now lurking somewhere in the undergrowth with the window frames? Finger crossed - them you would have something to replicate even if it is too far gone to repair.

You’ve seen one in the wild? Interesting! For all my fruitless searching I was beginning to think it was just a weird quirk! I’ll have a break from hacking off cement render in a bit and fish around in the undergrowth like David Bellamy- you never know . Shutters at least would give me something to look at instead of those hideous plastic windows

 

[Drayton]

You’ve seen one in the wild? Interesting! For all my fruitless searching I was beginning to think it was just a weird quirk! I’ll have a break from hacking off cement render in a bit and fish around in the undergrowth like David Bellamy- you never know . Shutters at least would give me something to look at instead of those hideous plastic windows

I was very young then and these days I count as old by any sensible reckoning. Added to which I don't have a good visual memory and, of course, we didn't waste precious shots from a roll of film on things like the house's woodwork. So, yes, we definitely had a big (to an under 11 yr old,at least) slab of shutter than could be made to defy gravity and rise to cover the wiindow, but I know no more than that, sadly.

 

[Feltwell]

I bought a load of shutters from a house with windows just as these - and before I get accused of blasphemy, literally all that was left of the house when I went to collect them was a pile of broken sash windows on the corner of the plot, even the brick rubble had been carted away I broke up the remains of the sash frames to take the shutters. They were due to be a bonfire otherwise.

Before Cassie gets too excited, yes I have still got them but I've also got a use for them as cupboard doors! Not likely to be the same size anyway.

I think they're a great idea, but they have to be in the right house - here I have very large sash windows that go from the ceiling to about 2' from the floor in some rooms, so no space for vertical shutters beneath.

I suspect there are a good number of houses out there where the occupier has no idea that they have vertical or folding shutters, as they are nailed shut and painted over.

 

[Feltwell]

Great article on sash windows Feltwell!
It’s given me some inspo on how to tackle the porch window as part of the whole restoration. Not a sash, but wooden and knackered. It’s been a total saga so far- people looking and not quoting, some teeth sucking, and one bloke that took a deposit and disappeared! Maybe the only way I’ll get it done is by myself!

View attachment 9178

It's honestly not as difficult as people perceive. Looking at that window, I bet it's the fairly straightforward bit at the bottom that's gone and the complicated curved bit at the top is fine.

They are very fine glazing bars - I would have assumed it was cast iron if you hadn't have said otherwise.

I'd do this for a living if I actually thought I could make a living from it, I really enjoy it. Alas it's just not a realistic prospect. Who knows, maybe in a few years when I hit 55 and can supplement it with my pension. I'm sure I'll have too much here to do though!

 

[Feltwell]

I pulled the shutters out from under the garage to show you what they were like, gives me a break from bathrooms!

This is the front and hinged lid of the box beneath the window that held the shutters:-





Quite plain as you can see, the reverse side would never have been seen of course.

This is one of the sliding shutters:-







Quite plain as you can see. Your shutter box front has some nice mouldings around the panels, so I suggest your shutters would have had the same, so they looked like the box front when shut.

Finally, to cheer you up, here is my family bathroom as at today. I think I might need to do some light dusting.



We also have an en-suite bathroom off our bedroom, recently finished and which everyone is currently using. It would be a nightmare if we only had 1 bathroom!

 

[Cassie]

I bought a load of shutters from a house with windows just as these - and before I get accused of blasphemy, literally all that was left of the house when I went to collect them was a pile of broken sash windows on the corner of the plot, even the brick rubble had been carted away I broke up the remains of the sash frames to take the shutters. They were due to be a bonfire otherwise.

Before Cassie gets too excited, yes I have still got them but I've also got a use for them as cupboard doors! Not likely to be the same size anyway.

I think they're a great idea, but they have to be in the right house - here I have very large sash windows that go from the ceiling to about 2' from the floor in some rooms, so no space for vertical shutters beneath.

I suspect there are a good number of houses out there where the occupier has no idea that they have vertical or folding shutters, as they are nailed shut and painted over.

I pulled the shutters out from under the garage to show you what they were like, gives me a break from bathrooms!

This is the front and hinged lid of the box beneath the window that held the shutters:-

View attachment 9180

View attachment 9179

Quite plain as you can see, the reverse side would never have been seen of course.

This is one of the sliding shutters:-

View attachment 9181

View attachment 9182

View attachment 9183

Quite plain as you can see.

Finally, to cheer you up, here is my family bathroom as at today. I think I might need to do some light dusting.

View attachment 9184

We also have an en-suite bathroom off our bedroom, recently finished and which everyone is currently using. It would be a nightmare if we only had 1 bathroom!

Bathroom hell! At least you’re getting on with it. We have a lav on the middle floor which someone has helpfully added a bath into by cutting into the large reception room adjacent. Nice. And a shower on the top floor which is not only a health hazard, you have to run around to get wet . So, porch, then bathroom, and a bit of playing with shutters on the side
Those boxes look exactly like the ones here, still in situ. Thanks for digging them out! Im putting down my hammer and bolster for a min and going for a rummage in the fresh air

 

[Cassie]

It's honestly not as difficult as people perceive. Looking at that window, I bet it's the fairly straightforward bit at the bottom that's gone and the complicated curved bit at the top is fine.

They are very fine glazing bars - I would have assumed it was cast iron if you hadn't have said otherwise.

I'd do this for a living if I actually thought I could make a living from it, I really enjoy it. Alas it's just not a realistic prospect. Who knows, maybe in a few years when I hit 55 and can supplement it with my pension. I'm sure I'll have too much here to do though!

Yes, the top bit looks ok. There’s a matching window on the other wall which is also fine. So just those two lower bits to figure out

 

[Cassie]

Don’t think I’ll be getting these out any time soon Interestingly though I can see several large panes of glass still intact-will try and salvage for when proper windows go in

 

[Drayton]

Yes, I'd say Feltwell's are pretty much what ours looked like, except that the window was quite a bit wider. We were Midlands but as Cassie's in Devon they don't seem to be a regional feature.