VAT on repairs to Listed Buildings

[xanthe]

I don't know if anyone else caught the Politics Show today?

Lloyd Grossman was pushing the case for VAT to be removed or at least reduced to 5% for repairs to Listed Buildings. He cited the way that Britain was marketed so much on its heritage that it was in the national interest for ancient buildings to be maintained.

86% of Listed Buildings are in private ownership and mainly not that of 'rich' people and it's thought that a number aren't being repaired because of the high costs and removing VAT would make maintenance more affordable.

The politicians were pretty useless - one said you couldn't do it if it wasn't done for all properties (er, it's not there for new builds) and then talked about the Heritage Lottery money (er, that goes to the big ticket properties) and another decided to talk about energy grants for Victorian semis.

Interesting though and might kick something off. Are there organised groups that campaign for such things?

 

[Flyfisher]

I wouldn't hold your breath.

If government was serious about such things it had the perfect opportunity a couple of years ago when it removed the VAT concession on alterations to listed buildings. It had always seemed a bit odd to me that alterations were VAT-free but repairs were not, but instead of swapping the VAT concession from alterations to repairs, they decided to remove it altogether. I can't imagine they'll be rushing to change it again.

 

[Penners]

I wouldn't hold your breath....

...or sit on a hot stove until it happens.

There's a General Election on the 7th May next year, and there aren't enough listed building owners to tip the vote significantly one way or the other. So any tax brib... sorry, reductions... that crop up in manifestos aren't likely to lobbed in their direction.

 

[tobydog]

FYI below. It's the text from an email I just received from The Listed Property Owners Club. Though it might be of interest but, as FF said, don't hold your breath.

LPOC's Parliamentary Reception to raise the issues of listed building ownership was a tremendous success, with Minister for Culture, Media and Sport Ed Vaizey MP attending to show his support.
Many important Westminster figures gathered to listen to LPOC founder Peter Anslow's presentation on listed property ownership as part of our campaign, with a number signing to join an All Party Parliamentary Group (APPG) after the election.
Mr Vaizey MP arrived to meet LPOC on Tuesday 21st October and made a closing statement following Peter's presentation. Showing his appreciation, the Minster expressed thanks to listed building owners for their important role in preserving heritage and acknowledged the difficult processes they face. Looking forward, Mr Vaizey assured he would do his best to help owners of listed properties in the Autumn statement.
The event, hosted by MP for Lancaster & Fleetwood Eric Ollerenshaw, was a great opportunity to bring key issues surrounding ownership to the attention of Parliament.

Club Founder Peter Anslow welcomed guests at LPOC's event, including MPs (left to right) Tracey Crouch, Andrew Percy, Eric Ollerenshaw and The Rt Hon Ed Vaizey.
LPOC asked Parliament for:
• A reduction in VAT on approved listed building alterations, repairs and maintenance to 5%
• More detailed and clearer guidance for owners on issues such as double glazing
• Better representation in Parliament

Peter Anslow said in his speech: "Over 1 million people call listed properties their home, yet the issue is on the fringes of political debate. For the sake of owners' livelihood and the large cultural contribution they make, this must change.
"We hope you can see why it is so crucial for listed property owners to have a voice in Westminster and we hope you will sign a pledge card to support an APPG in their name."
The points LPOC raised received great understanding and sympathy from those attending, with many agreeing the need for change. LPOC is now positive of setting up an APPG and will build on the support gained at the event to gather further backing in the lead up to the 2015 general election, along with setting out our own manifesto.


How You Can Help
Our campaign which is pushing for and succeeding in listed property owners having a voice in Westminster is funded by our insurance providers, who pass a fee back to us when a new policy is taken. If you are able to help, do let us know when your insurance is due for renewal by emailing newsletter@lpoc.co.uk or calling 01795 844939 and our team will be in contact.

 

[xanthe]

Thanks Tobydog, that's really interesting - I shall watch whilst breathing normally!

Just out of interest, is the LBOC worth joining - is there anything that you get for your £55 that you can't get elsewhere for free. Personally, I'm interested in forums where you can get advice from people who have BTDT with repairs/renovations and admire their ancient eyecandy (which here definitely does), but they do seem to advertise things like a specialist insurance deal (is that members only?).

 

[Keithj]

LPOC is/was a good idea, but when I used their directory to try to find some skilled tradesmen, it transpired that none of those listed were still in business.

The insurance deal is OK (I did better with NFU Mutual). I'd say: join if you're buying a listed property for the first time. Leave when you decide it's doing nothing for what you're paying.

 

[lukekelly]

Much as repairs to listed buildings being exempt from VAT would have benefited me personally, I'm genuinely not sure it's a good idea.

Tax systems with lower overall tax rates but fewer loopholes are cheaper to run, fairer and less open to abuse than messy systems with high headline rates but every well-connected interest group having their own special exemption. Much as I'm exhausted from working on the house and skint from paying other people to do the work I can't do, there is a need to remember that we are lucky to own the houses we do and that listed buildings are sufficiently desirable to attract a large premium over normal houses.

 

[Roger H]

Hi Luke,

That said, many listed buildings are in quite economicaly deprived parts of the country and a large number are modest buildings e.g. workers terraced housing in my patch. The listing is not always considered an asset here and I don't think it delivers a premium to sellers up here either. VAT relief was one of the few carrots that could be used to ensure that works were done appropriately.

 

[Ebenezer]

I think it would be a great idea for repairs only. Not improvements. I am biased however.

 

[Keithj]

The repairs on our house were completed before VAT was imposed. One of the few things we've timed correctly!

The church repairs benefit from the Listed Places of Worship Grant scheme - thus far, we've got most of the VAT back. There are a few strange minor exceptions.

 

[xanthe]

One of the things Lloyd mentioned was that due to the VAT, a lot of people are paying cash under the table in order to reduce cost. This means the tax-man is losing out completely and also that it is less likely that they will employ builders with the required specialist skills or at least experience and sympathy with historic buildings and traditional building methods.

If VAT was removed then it might encourage people to use these specialists thus not only putting money in the public coffers, but also an increase in jobs in this area of the building industry.

I have always been baffled as to why VAT exemption applied to alterations rather than repair, given that the former is frankly a luxury in many cases, and the latter is an essential.

I'm in a fortunate position where VAT or otherwise, we will not be living on beans on toast in order to pay for a new roof, but I do know many elderly people who are rather in that position.

Thanks for the info on the LBOC. This is the first LB that we have bought, but I have grown up in everything from an C11th falling down bit of abbey to a modern box to a C17th house. APs are now embarking on a thatched cob cottage in Devon with attached Georgian wreck. So have a fair idea of what living in one is like and what to fear on a survey, but nothing about specific bits and pieces for this property. Would be helpful if there is information about early pitfalls - and the insurance thing sounds very interesting.

 

[Keithj]

One thing: LBOC you won't find. It's LPOC.
See here.

 

[tobydog]

Received the following update from the Listed Property Owners Club last week:

Campaign update - Political parties declare their position as LPOC make gains towards group for listed building owners

The political parties declared their position on a VAT reduction on approved alterations to listed buildings during the Heritage Alliance's Heritage Day, which LPOC attended. Ed Vaizey said the Chancellor was "not able to secure a VAT reduction in the Autumn statement", but insisted that the Government "remains open minded and interested about reducing VAT on repairs and alterations". The Minister stressed the importance of the Heritage sector providing clearer evidence to the Treasury about the cost of reducing VAT. Mr Vaizey also said "VAT is a matter for the Chancellor", and described a reduction in VAT on alterations and repairs as "a very live issue."
The Minster also acknowledged the importance of preserving traditional skills used on listed buildings. He said: "We still need to retain those skills in these areas."
William Cash, UKIP Heritage Spokesman, used the Heritage Day to announce his parties support for a VAT reduction. Mr Cash said: "UKIP is the first party to pledge to abolish VAT on listed building repairs." UKIP formally announced their support days later following receiving a copy of Peter's presentation.
Baroness Bonham Carter, Liberal Democrat spokesperson on Culture, said that the Liberal Democrats were open to discussion on a VAT reduction on alterations and repairs. The Baroness also acknowledged the large part listed building custodians play in preserving heritage and the complex processes enforced upon them. She said: "It is right that local authorities guard our heritage, but must treat those who do with real respect."
Labour Shadow Minister for The Arts Chris Bryant had been in his position for only twenty-four hours while speaking at The Heritage Day, but did acknowledge "Our heritage has an intrinsic value", and claimed the Labour would tackle the issue of red tape in these areas.
In the lead up to the election in May, LPOC will be lobbying to have these promises secured in party manifestos.

LPOC closer to achieving goal to form an All Party Political Group for listed building owners following tremendous success of Parliamentary Reception. Following the success of LPOC Founder Peter Anslow's presentation to parliament we have had numerous promises of support for an All Party Political Group, the first step to achieving a voice in Westminster.
A number of signed pledges from MPs and Peers were signed on the day and also returned to us afterwards, offering to support an APPG after the general election.

Meetings With MPs. LPOC has met with Neil Carmichael MP for Stroud and former Heritage Minister John Penrose, MP for Weston-super-Mare. Both meetings were tremendously successful with Neil Carmichael agreeing to join our APPG, signing a pledge in support. John Penrose is extremely active in campaigning for listed properties and heritage. During our meeting Mr Penrose expressed his support for or work and was in agreement of our aims. We hope to work closely with Mr Penrose in the coming months.


How You Can Help. Use our template letter to write to your MP explaining your obligations as a listed property owner, also highlighting our effort and requesting they join our All Party Political Group. Our campaign which is pushing for, and succeeding in, listed property owners having a voice in Westminster is funded by our insurance providers who pass a fee back to us when a new policy is taken. If you are able to help, do let us know when your insurance is due for renewal by emailing newsletter@lpoc.co.uk or calling 01795 844939 and our team will be in contact.