I have just had UPVC windows fitted in the bay window on my living room and the original shutters now cannot be used. They are forced open with the window casing. This was never raised as a possible problem and the window company are saying there is nothing that can be done now, and it can't be remedied. Has anyone else ever encountered this and did anyone have advice for moving forwards? I really liked the shutters working and am pretty upset that this was not mentioned at the survey stage. I had no idea that this might happen. Should the surveyor have mentioned this?
- Thread starter kimbobble
- Start date
Cubist
Member
- Messages
- 1,965
- Location
- Shropshire/Herefordshire Border
Internal or external shutters? Can you provide a photo or two?
You may be able to insert a 'stand-off' behind the mounts of the shutters to realign them with the window frame when closed.
You may be able to insert a 'stand-off' behind the mounts of the shutters to realign them with the window frame when closed.
CliffordPope
Member
- Messages
- 960
It's like laying a carpet and then discovering that the door won't open. You need to raise the hinges a bit or shave the bottom of the door.
Internal, the window casing is now over the hinge edge of the shutter and the sill is too high and also blocked the shutter from opening. The window company said that the part of the shutter under the casing has also been irreparably damaged, and that it's not their fault or problem to fix.
Cubist
Member
- Messages
- 1,965
- Location
- Shropshire/Herefordshire Border
Ugh, they've done a really dodgy job there. I'm assuming that, in the first picture, the return to the shutter above the cill is a part of the UPVC frame?
Presumably it's a boxed, multi framed folded shutter on both sides of the room? Come what may simply getting it out without major damage would be a nightmare. Sadly all the remedies I can think of would require significant surgery to either the window frame or the shutter and its frame. The best of these would be to cut and remove those elements to the UPVC cill and the returns to the shutters/wall and also perhaps do the same with the window frame header to make room for the shutters to open properly. That, however, may be very difficult to make good aesthetically and may in fact compromise the structure of the frame.
Short of insisting that the supplier removes and replaces the frame with something that properly fits the available space I'm sorry to say that I don't see a good solution.
Were the installers supervised during installation and were they aware of the shutters and their function? If they did not ask or advise that there may be a problem at the time you may have a claim that could be legally enforceable.
Presumably it's a boxed, multi framed folded shutter on both sides of the room? Come what may simply getting it out without major damage would be a nightmare. Sadly all the remedies I can think of would require significant surgery to either the window frame or the shutter and its frame. The best of these would be to cut and remove those elements to the UPVC cill and the returns to the shutters/wall and also perhaps do the same with the window frame header to make room for the shutters to open properly. That, however, may be very difficult to make good aesthetically and may in fact compromise the structure of the frame.
Short of insisting that the supplier removes and replaces the frame with something that properly fits the available space I'm sorry to say that I don't see a good solution.
Were the installers supervised during installation and were they aware of the shutters and their function? If they did not ask or advise that there may be a problem at the time you may have a claim that could be legally enforceable.
Thank you for reinforcing all that I thought 
the surveyor did not ask or advise anything about the shutters. The area manager was insisting it was my fault for not saying that I wanted the shutters to remain working. I was unaware that they would not work after the windows address installed. He also said that the fitters have damaged the shutters underneath the UPVC returns.(and yes they are boxed and folding shutters). Fortunately they also messed up they other windows they were supposed to fit and have not finished the job, so we will delay them until they have come up with a reasonable resolution.
Thank you for taking the time to reply. Greatly appreciated.
the surveyor did not ask or advise anything about the shutters. The area manager was insisting it was my fault for not saying that I wanted the shutters to remain working. I was unaware that they would not work after the windows address installed. He also said that the fitters have damaged the shutters underneath the UPVC returns.(and yes they are boxed and folding shutters). Fortunately they also messed up they other windows they were supposed to fit and have not finished the job, so we will delay them until they have come up with a reasonable resolution.Thank you for taking the time to reply. Greatly appreciated.
fernicarry
Member
- Messages
- 419
- Location
- Argyllshire
That's pretty heart breaking but sadly not entirely suprising. Presume they were timber sliding sashes previously?
I don't think the returns on the ingoes, the inner facings or the cill will be structural in any way so I'd be looking to remove those and investigate the damage underneath. Those pieces will only be held on with silicon so a bit of judicious slicing with a sharp knife or a multitool will get them off. Shiny white plastic has no place in a period property anyway.
A half decent joiner should be able to piece in replacement timber to make good the shutters, preferably reclaimed from something of a similar age rather than modern timber. Try Glasgow Salvage in Paisley, they have a little workshop on site and seem to specialise in doors. The facing elements around the window can be reinstated in timber too to give you back some of the period detail you have lost.
So far as dealing with the fitters, they sound like they are taking a pretty aggressive stance on this which if anything makes me think they realise they've cocked it up and are trying hard to put you off challenging any further. You could take a legal route but that will be slow and unpleasant, better to come to some mutual agreement. They let you out of the contract, you pay them cost price for the windows you are keeping and they compensate you a few hundred for them being absolute muppets.
You might want to revisit your plans for the other window openings. Are the existing windows so far gone that they need complete replacement? There are plenty of sash window repair guys operating in the Glasgow area who can fit double glazed sashes into existing frames and draft proof them at the same time so you get better thermal performance without changing the appearance too much.
I don't think the returns on the ingoes, the inner facings or the cill will be structural in any way so I'd be looking to remove those and investigate the damage underneath. Those pieces will only be held on with silicon so a bit of judicious slicing with a sharp knife or a multitool will get them off. Shiny white plastic has no place in a period property anyway.
A half decent joiner should be able to piece in replacement timber to make good the shutters, preferably reclaimed from something of a similar age rather than modern timber. Try Glasgow Salvage in Paisley, they have a little workshop on site and seem to specialise in doors. The facing elements around the window can be reinstated in timber too to give you back some of the period detail you have lost.
So far as dealing with the fitters, they sound like they are taking a pretty aggressive stance on this which if anything makes me think they realise they've cocked it up and are trying hard to put you off challenging any further. You could take a legal route but that will be slow and unpleasant, better to come to some mutual agreement. They let you out of the contract, you pay them cost price for the windows you are keeping and they compensate you a few hundred for them being absolute muppets.
You might want to revisit your plans for the other window openings. Are the existing windows so far gone that they need complete replacement? There are plenty of sash window repair guys operating in the Glasgow area who can fit double glazed sashes into existing frames and draft proof them at the same time so you get better thermal performance without changing the appearance too much.
Cubist
Member
- Messages
- 1,965
- Location
- Shropshire/Herefordshire Border
Escalate, in writing. By-pass the area manager - he's a muppet - and write directly to the MD/CEO and telling him/her politely but bluntly that you expect the frame to be replaced with something that properly fits. Their surveyor should have verified everything beforehand and the management should have inspected the work for satisfactory completion.
Stevers
Member
- Messages
- 511
- Location
- Mendip Hills
I'm sure that's completely fixable once the horrid UPVC trims have been removed.
Anyone want to speculate what these clueless oafs did prior to UPVC window fitting? 'Stone' cladding seems a distinct possibility!
Anyone want to speculate what these clueless oafs did prior to UPVC window fitting? 'Stone' cladding seems a distinct possibility!
Cubist
Member
- Messages
- 1,965
- Location
- Shropshire/Herefordshire Border
The occupation that first came to my mind is, on reflection, perhaps more appropriate to their parents or, more likely, grandparents - Mail Bag Makers. A more contemporaneous suggestion though would be Tarmac Drive Layer of Roof Lead Nicker.
Ooh, that reminds me, my nieces husband owns 3 or 4 UPVC outlets in the Midlands - maybe he'll share his recruitment criteria.
LadyArowana
Member
- Messages
- 3,668
These things are always a problem in 3 dimensions, things look ok in a drawing, but once it comes to real life the issues show up. I agree with others, escalate, it must be fixable somehow. Hopefully a lot of the new bit isn’t serving any structural function and could be cut away and made good afterwards in a way which doesn’t impinge on the shutters.
Flyfisher
Member
- Messages
- 10,101
- Location
- Norfolk, UK
Sadly, you've been badly let down by suppliers and fitters who clearly don't really care about the quality of their work. I'd say Cubist was being very generous calling the area manager a muppet! Imagine taking your car for a service and having to tell the garage that you'd like it to remain working! If it's not too much trouble, of course. Pretty please.Thank you for reinforcing all that I thought
Thank you for taking the time to reply. Greatly appreciated.
The good news is that the problem is fixable but I agree with the other comments that you'll have to escalate with all guns blazing. It's a shoddy job and completely unacceptable.
If the new window frame can't be replaced with something thinner, ie the same size as the old one, then it should be possible to add a suitable wood frame behind the shutters to bring them out from their housing and level with or slightly proud of the new frame so that they would then be able to open again. This might also require any moulding around the shutter boxing to be similarly moved outwards as well, but the end result should be pretty much unnoticeable. A fairly easy job for a competent joiner.
But of course it was only a fairly easy job BEFORE the new window was fitted. Now that the shutters cannot be opened there is no access to their hinges (I'm assuming) so no easy way of removing them. They could be cut away and then either repaired or new ones made (everything is possible!) but that's not really the point. It's so difficult to find trades people who genuinely care about their work these days.
Stevers
Member
- Messages
- 511
- Location
- Mendip Hills
The window isn't a sash and as a result takes up less room than before. The cill is a plastic trim, as are the uprights including the one facing the camera adjacent to the shutters. All that really has to come off to be rebuilt properly, preferably in timber to permit the shutters to work as designed. One would hope that the basics of all that were left under those trims.
It is unlikely that any UPVC fitter/bodger will have the skills, knowledge or empathy to do that, let alone the feckless clowns that left your windows like that.
Three more things to dislike about UPVC windows - mitred joints, random UPVC trims to cover internal and external gaps, and plenty of dirty looking silicon to gunge it all together.
It is unlikely that any UPVC fitter/bodger will have the skills, knowledge or empathy to do that, let alone the feckless clowns that left your windows like that.
Three more things to dislike about UPVC windows - mitred joints, random UPVC trims to cover internal and external gaps, and plenty of dirty looking silicon to gunge it all together.