Type of staircase

[Rosie]

Hi I just wondered if anyone could advise the age or style of my staircase, the type of wood and should I treat it or leave it thanks.
It’s in a long farm house which has a Tudor fireplace and various other old structures in a small village near Leeds. Thanks for any information

 

[Abi Cott]

I'm voting for pitch pine "vernacular structure" which basically means whatever the local lads fancied building.

It looks like it's been covered until fairly recently, but if I'm right, it's old, well seasoned timber that will be dimensionally stable and doesn't really need anything doing to it.

I'm still a bit of a novice at this stuff, but also in the Leeds area. 3 storey weavers cottage on the 'tother side of Bradford (aka Bratfud)

 

[88v8]

Very nice.
Does look rather like pitch pine.

If you're stripping all the paint off the rail and balusters, I'd just wax them. Not the treads !!
The underside needs nothing unless it has active worm. The underside would have been lath & plaster or perhaps match & bead. Obviously it was never meant to be seen.
Eventually I'd get rid of that modern wall-to-wall carpet, and have a runner.

Ivor

 

[Pennyviz]

Hi

Someone from the Vernacular Architecture Group might be able to help

http://www.vag.org.uk/contacts.htm


Penny

 

[Rosie]

Hi thanks for the information.
As I am paint stripping there is a gooey substance under the paint and I don’t know how to get rid of it? I can’t use heat as it just burns and gets more runny.
I never wanted carpet but the steps are very worn in places and the carpet fitter said it would be dangerous just having a runner?most of the step edges aren’t square they are worn in places.
The quarry tiles are just on soil...I don’t know if that’s normal or not. Thanks again Rosie

 

[Flyfisher]

Eventually I'd get rid of that modern wall-to-wall carpet, and have a runner.

I agree. In fact it’s exactly what we’re in the process of doing, but it's not without problems. Stairs inevitably move slightly as they are used and this leads to the painted areas of the stair edges cracking. Also, one of our staircases is quite crudely built and ‘fine joinery’ was clearly not a high priority a few hundred years ago so there are some quite wide gaps between treads and risers. Wood filler is too rigid to prevent subsequent cracking but some gaps are a bit large for flexible caulking. Any tips or tricks that I’ve missed here?

So, my heart says use a runner but my head encourages the fitting of a full-width carpet to cover up all the poor workmanship and wear and tear. While that battle rages on we just put up with bare treads and shabby, worn out paintwork. :roll:

 

[LadyArowana]

How about a wide flatweave or sisal type runner secured with clips? That might cover up most of the damaged parts?

 

[Rosie]

I love the runner and I think it would work on the staircase. Thanks a lot.

 

[88v8]

...the painted areas of the stair edges cracking. Also, one of our staircases is quite crudely built and ‘fine joinery’ was clearly not a high priority a few hundred years ago so there are some quite wide gaps between treads and risers. Wood filler is too rigid to prevent subsequent cracking but some gaps are a bit large for flexible caulking. Any tips or tricks that I’ve missed here?

A small planted beading betwixt string and runner, if that's an acceptable alteration in a GII*.
If the stairs were not painted the gaps would not be so noticeable and there'd be no paint to crack.
But stripping a staircase would be a right pain. Although you could pay someone to do it for you.

Ivor

 

[88v8]

The quarry tiles are just on soil...I don’t know if that’s normal or not.

Yes.
And if the soil is not damp then they should be just fine.
But don't seal them, or any damp that is present won't be able to evaporate.

Ivor

 

[Pennyviz]

The quarry tiles are just on soil...I don’t know if that’s normal or not.

Yes.
And if the soil is not damp then they should be just fine.
But don't seal them, or any damp that is present won't be able to evaporate.

Ivor

Yes all my tiles are on soil too (with the inevitable layer of bitumen too in places).

The brown stuff is some of varnish/paint/polish that seems to be in ever property I've lived in on the stairs and is a nightmare to remove I agree.

Penny

 

[Gareth Hughes]

It's an interesting vernacular staircase, but the people who originally built it would be slightly horrified that it, and the brick wall next to it, are now on show to all and sundry rather than smartly covered up.

 

[88v8]

The brown stuff is some of varnish/paint/polish that seems to be in ever property I've lived in on the stairs and is a nightmare to remove I agree.

Ah yes, I forgot.
At one time, bare wood was considered common. Common as in hairnets. Thus it was routine for it to be stained & grained, or simply painted with a varnish stain. As you say, it's very hard to remove.
Lovely though pitch pine is, I'd be very tempted to paint it again. Or find someone who can do staining and graining -a great art - and make it look like pitch pine.

Ivor

 

[Flyfisher]

...the painted areas of the stair edges cracking. Also, one of our staircases is quite crudely built and ‘fine joinery’ was clearly not a high priority a few hundred years ago so there are some quite wide gaps between treads and risers. Wood filler is too rigid to prevent subsequent cracking but some gaps are a bit large for flexible caulking. Any tips or tricks that I’ve missed here?

A small planted beading betwixt string and runner, if that's an acceptable alteration in a GII*.
If the stairs were not painted the gaps would not be so noticeable and there'd be no paint to crack.
But stripping a staircase would be a right pain. Although you could pay someone to do it for you.

I had wondered about adding some beading, though I confess that I hadn't considered any listing implications on the basis that it wouldn't be an alteration of anything original, more an easily-reversible addition. I'd prefer to avoid beading if possible and my current thoughts are to fill the gaps first and see how they perform because I could always add beading later. I'm not optimistic though, because the stairs are fairly 'creaky' indicating they are not rock-solid. Not that I mind the creaking.

I agree about unpainted wood, although some of the gaps are quite large, though I'm pretty sure the stairs (as well as the upstairs hallway boards) were originally painted at the edges (the paint is certainly leaded) where the runner left them exposed, so the plan is to retain that rather than go to the trouble of stripping the staircase. You're right it would be a right pain, but I also don't think it's a 'fine' enough staircase in the first place, hence probably why it was painted.

The photos below show the recently painted staircase. No cracking of the paint yet, though it has only been a couple of months yet. The tread 'nibs' have also been repaired as all of them were badly worn/broken. We're currently shopping around to find a suitable runner. The other staircase is still in all its unrestored glory. Interestingly, this one has been fully painted even under the runner. This staircase has the worst gaps, probably because it has suffered from some historical water damage causing movement in the structure. You can see how a full width carpet would cover a multitude of sins!

 

[Flyfisher]

I never wanted carpet but the steps are very worn in places and the carpet fitter said it would be dangerous just having a runner?most of the step edges aren’t square they are worn in places.

I'm not sure why a runner would be any more dangerous than a full width carpet. I've been advised that runners should still be fitted with modern 'gripper' strips even when stair rods are used because this eliminates the risk of the runner slipping. So as long as runners or full width carpets are firmly fixed in place, the risk of slippage because of worn treats must surely be much the same (assuming equal 'grippiness' of the basic material used).

If the stair edges really are so worn as to be a potential danger, they can be fairly easily repaired by cutting out the worn/broken 'nibs' to a square edge and splicing in a new piece of matching wood. You can see this in one of the photos I posted above.

The quarry tiles are just on soil...I don’t know if that’s normal or not. Thanks again Rosie

It's certainly not unusual. We have a room and hallway with pamments laid directly on the soil and I sure there are many others here who have similar.

 

[Rosie]

It's an interesting vernacular staircase, but the people who originally built it would be slightly horrified that it, and the brick wall next to it, are now on show to all and sundry rather than smartly covered up.

Hi they were both covered up.....by artex!. I can only do bits at a time. Rosie

 

[88v8]

Stair clips are OK for a runner, but stair rods are better.
These are not overly expensive and come with clips.
I dare say he would post them, for a price.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SET-OF-14-VINTAGE-BRASS-STAIR-RODS-AND-BRACKETS-can-deliver-Essex-london/223623100098?hash=item3410f9b6c2:g:V4cAAOSwCkldJbot

They need no grippers.
Just a pad under each tread.

The runner is cut longer then needed, so that at the bottom there is half a tread to fold under. Then, when the runner eventually wears, it can be moved up half a tread so that the worn portion is now on the riser rather than the tread.

Ivor

 

[Kearn]

It's an interesting vernacular staircase, but the people who originally built it would be slightly horrified that it, and the brick wall next to it, are now on show to all and sundry rather than smartly covered up.

Well, they would've been on show while being constructed one would guess, so it's not really too horrifying that it's also on show while being restored, is it?

I imagine the OP was looking for positive responses to their questions to help their progress...

 

[88v8]

I imagine the OP was looking for positive responses to their questions to help their progress...

I'm sure you're right.
And it's good to see someone getting stuck into a job.
But some people imagine that bare stone and bare brickwork and bare wood are 'period' , and Gareth, who in his day job is a CO, was just pointing out that it's not 'period', not at all at all.

A matter of taste, one might say.
Yes, to a degree. But where the harm potentially creeps in is when people start stripping correct plaster and other historic finishes in order to create an incorrect aesthetic.

Not saying that's happening here, just a general observation.
And it needs to be observed now and then, 'cos if folks see it without comment on PPF, well it must be alright stands ter reason dunnit.

Ivor

 

[Kearn]

I'm not disagreeing with the logic at all, but the relevance.
There was no mention of leaving things exposed, that's purely a mere assumption about someone else's views/intentions, and we all know where that leads... :wink:

This forum is great for questions being answered and solicited advice being given. But staying on topic is hugely important.
I'd agree it's great to see another property being restored, but equally when your first post is met with unnecessary criticism off topic from what you're asking, then does that encourage folks to bother sticking around to ask a second question?