Traditional looking loft hatch?

[Zebra]

Hello all,
In the upstairs room of my house, which is around 17th Century timber frame, I have tie beams in the ceiling and the plan is to board across above them with woodwool board and lime plaster inbetween the beams leaving them exposed.
In order not to have a TV aerial on the roof, I've stuck it in this loft, which otherwise isn't big enough to use as a loft. However, that means I'd need to leave access. What sort of loft hatch could I have that wouldn't look out of keeping? Are there Regs dictating how big/rigid/accessible a loft hatch must be?
I should add that because the house is small and lower than all the surrounding ones, I'd need to put a socket in the loft to power an aerial booster. Otherwise I'd probably be tempted not to have a hatch, but if there's a socket outlet up there I probably should.
Many thanks all.
Z

 

[88v8]

If the beams are currently plastered - which perhaps is how they were meant to be - removing the plaster & lath will leave a lot of holes of course... as to the hatch, I'm not aware of what regulations there might be.
I made my hatch in a room where there never ever was one.
From memory - I'm 100 miles away - I made the hatch about 24" x 30". It depends to a degree on the joist spacing.
Oak... I made the real fixings with wire oval nails, then the visible ones with roseheads, concealing the wire ovals by the overlap of the roseheads (1st pic)
The joists are far from straight, the corners are not square, it was quite a challenge. Had to sculpt out the underside of the architrave to follow the curve of the ceiling. (3rd pic)
I didn't mitre the corners of the architrave, I don't think they did mitres in those days. (2nd pic, shame about the focussss)
The end result looks quite period I think.
The rafters (elm) are only 2" x 2" or so, not strong enough to bear any weight and were never meant to. To prevent the (two-coat lime) plaster from cracking I had to acrow the ceiling while I was up there woodworming and rafter repairing and lagging, and do not intend to go up there again. I shall use for storage only the radius I can reach from the hatch, and to this extent I boarded it with ply.

Remember to insulate the top of the hatch

Ivor

 

[Zebra]

Oh gosh what a perfect reply. That looks fabulous. Similarly my beams are only 2" x 2" or so, and not meant to be weight bearing, although likewise if there was ply spreading the load it would be OK up to a point. The largest gap between my beams is 390mm though, so I'd have to make it a bit smaller than yours.
I love the idea of the roseheads, and not doing mitred corners.
I shall remember to insulate the top of the hatch! Thanks!

 

[Penners]

In my view, 88v8's solution is a good one if you want people to walk into the room, immediately have their eye caught and say "Wow - look at your loft hatch!".

The alternative approach is to have a plain panel, set flush into a minimal frame and painted the same colour as your ceiling. Then it won't get noticed at all.

 

[Feltwell]

I'm torn - I like both approaches - but on balance I'd go more for Penners "plain and unobtrusive" approach.

For the hatch lid itself, I'd certainly go for something other than a plain piece of painted board. Below are a couple of hatches I've had to install here. I'm not suggesting the styles for the surround are appropriate for your house - mine is late Victorian with the typical ornate architrave of that period - but the hatch lids themselves I just made from some T&G floorboards, with a "V" handcut with a small plane on the edge to make them look like very heavy V'd lining.

If your house is much older maybe some plain square cut boards made up in this way? You could always paint the surround and wax the planks if you want an element of exposed timber. I've got a big lump of Kingspan board fastened to the back of my hatches, which fits in snug to the insulation surrounding the hatch, and draught excluder underneath where the hatch rests to fill any tiny gaps there.

The hatch in the first picture is unfinished, the architrave and surround needs painting.

As for size, I'm not aware of any regs. The first one above is a little tight for my sylph-like figure , but I only need to get access up there very occasionally and I can get through it so it is fine. The second one is about twice the size of the first, necessary as I had to get a water tank through it. I'm still undecided as to if I should have painted the lid as well - seems a shame to hide up the grain in nice timber though.

 

[Flyfisher]

Hello all,
I should add that because the house is small and lower than all the surrounding ones, I'd need to put a socket in the loft to power an aerial booster. Otherwise I'd probably be tempted not to have a hatch, but if there's a socket outlet up there I probably should.

I can't really help with the hatch, but it might be helpful to know that there's no need for a power socket for an aerial booster.

The best sort of booster is something called a 'mast-head amplifier', so-called because it is usually mounted on the aerial pole as close to the actual aerial as possible. This is the best place to amplify a weak signal for reasons to do with cable losses and signal-to-noise ratios.

Anyway, the good thing about mast-head amplifiers is that the power for them is supplied 'up' the standard aerial cable. The power supply is usually a small box that can be plugged into the mains behind the tv. The aerial cable from the attic then plugs into the power supply box (which sends power to the masthead amp) and another short aerial cable connects from a second socket on the power supply to the tv.

 

[Penners]

The first one above is a little tight for my sylph-like figure

It's interesting you should mention that, Feltwell. I noticed the other day that our loft hatch was a bit of a snug fit on me, when I wriggled through it. Yet I'm certain it wasn't like that when we first moved into the house, two-and-a-half years ago.

How on earth can a loft hatch shrink?

 

[Feltwell]

How on earth can a loft hatch shrink?

I'm really not sure Penners, but it's not just loft hatches it affects - motorbike leathers are much more pronounced. On clearing out the spare room the other day I found some bike trousers that I bought when I was about 21, and they've clearly shrunk in storage as I'm sure I remember them being quite a generous fit.

 

[Penners]

the good thing about mast-head amplifiers is that the power for them is supplied 'up' the standard aerial cable. The power supply is usually a small box that can be plugged into the mains behind the tv. The aerial cable from the attic then plugs into the power supply box (which sends power to the masthead amp) and another short aerial cable connects from a second socket on the power supply to the tv.

That's a valuable piece of information - many thanks, FF. I've been trying to understand why our TV reception is a little sub-standard here, despite the fact that - according to our predecessors in the house - the aerial has a masthead amplifier fitted. There does appear to be a small lump of something (stop me if I'm getting too technical for you) at the point where the antenna itself joins the mast - would that be it?

But we have no corresponding box inside the house to send power up to it. I suppose our predecessors must have taken it with them.

Does the masthead amplifier need a specific type/brand of power supply box to match to it, or can I buy just any power supply?

While I'm picking your brains (not for the first time, I'm afraid!) I believe that the digital TV signal is due to be boosted, once the digital switchover takes place. We receive TV from the Tacolneston mast (maybe you do, too?) - our analogue BBC2 was apparently switched off a couple of weeks ago and the rest of the channels are scheduled to go this coming week. Do you happen to know when the digital signal boost will take place?

 

[Penners]

On clearing out the spare room the other day I found some bike trousers that I bought when I was about 21, and they've clearly shrunk in storage as I'm sure I remember them being quite a generous fit.

Having been in the furniture industry, Feltwell, I can give you some helpful advice about that. You have a faulty wardrobe, which is clearly shrinking anything stored in it.

 

[Feltwell]

Do you happen to know when the digital signal boost will take place?

Round these 'ere parts they did that at the same time as they switched the analogue signal off.

 

[Coz]

I have to say I agree with the problem of bike leathers shrinking. I have had the same problem and have had to purchase some larger ones in order to account for the fact that this happens. It has nothing to do with chocolate or any kind of sweeties. I personally think it is something the manufacturers do when making them!

 

[MdB]

Does the masthead amplifier need a specific type/brand of power supply box to match to it, or can I buy just any power supply?

I think they are all pretty standard (apart from the ones that aren't....). It would be best if you can get the details from the one on top of your roof though I guess this might be awkward.

While I'm picking your brains (not for the first time, I'm afraid!) I believe that the digital TV signal is due to be boosted, once the digital switchover takes place. We receive TV from the Tacolneston mast (maybe you do, too?) - our analogue BBC2 was apparently switched off a couple of weeks ago and the rest of the channels are scheduled to go this coming week. Do you happen to know when the digital signal boost will take place?

Same time as the change over I believe though I couldn't find the site I've found info from in the past to check. You are due a x10 signal boost though.

 

[Zebra]

For the hatch lid itself, I'd certainly go for something other than a plain piece of painted board. If your house is much older maybe some plain square cut boards made up in this way?

Yes, a good idea to use some plain cut boards, perhaps similar to what will be on the floor. I don't know about whether the plain unobtrusive approach or the "wow" approach will be best. Out of interest, here's the beams: as I said they will have woodwool boards above them and be plastered inbetween.

Very useful about the mast head amplifier. I've had to buy quite a small, and therefore cheap, aerial to go in the loft. I'll buy one of those amplifier things and try it before I seal the loft up!!
Thanks chaps

 

[Feltwell]

I really wouldn't seal the loft up. The first hatch above had to be created as I drilled through a cable , and the only way to repair it was to get into the loft space, which someone had helpfully sealed up when they boarded over after rewiring in the 80's.

Sod's Law says that if you seal it all up you'll need to get back up there for something unexpected one day.

 

[Penners]

Does the masthead amplifier need a specific type/brand of power supply box to match to it, or can I buy just any power supply?

I think they are all pretty standard (apart from the ones that aren't....).

Thanks, MdB (I think! :wink: )

It would be best if you can get the details from the one on top of your roof though I guess this might be awkward.

Yes, I'm not much into rooftop climbing these days, but perhaps I'll hunt out the binoculars tomorrow and see whether I can get a better view of the antenna.

You are due a x10 signal boost though.

Well, a x10 boost should sort our problem - I hope! So maybe I'll wait another week before I spend any money.

 

[88v8]

...my beams are only 2" x 2" or so, and not meant to be weight bearing...The largest gap between my beams is 390mm though, so I'd have to make it a bit smaller than yours.

Ah. Your roof space is in the state of undress that mine was, I guess, 170ish years ago when the ceiling was inserted, sans hatch. I see however that your joists were once plastered, whereas my joists were newly inserted at the same time as the ceiling.

The joist spacing was closer than 390. I cut one joist and inserted trimmers.

When it comes to woodwork I don't really do unobstrusive. Below is the under-sink cupboard in the bathroom of our present house. Began life as a sideboard and some floorboards.

Ivor

Edit; is it me, or has Bucket begun lopping off the rhs of one's pics? Or is it this site, on which I confess I have not posted pics before.

 

[Penners]

Sod's Law says that if you seal it all up you'll need to get back up there for something unexpected one day.

I absolutely agree.

 

[Zebra]

I really wouldn't seal the loft up.

Yes, sorry I was unclear, I meant I would try to get the aerial sorted out before I insert the boards and the insulation and make it difficult to get up there. The plan is to have a hatch, hence this post! However, if I can get the TV equipment sorted first, then hopefully the hatch will only be just-in-case. And perhaps beautiful, which would be nice too. So thanks all for your inspiring loft hatch pictures!

 

[Flyfisher]

That's a valuable piece of information - many thanks, FF. I've been trying to understand why our TV reception is a little sub-standard here, despite the fact that - according to our predecessors in the house - the aerial has a masthead amplifier fitted. There does appear to be a small lump of something (stop me if I'm getting too technical for you) at the point where the antenna itself joins the mast - would that be it?

But we have no corresponding box inside the house to send power up to it. I suppose our predecessors must have taken it with them.

Does the masthead amplifier need a specific type/brand of power supply box to match to it, or can I buy just any power supply?

If the 'small lump of something' (techno-jargon eh?!) is completely separate from the aerial then it's probably a masthead amplifier, especially if the previous occupants said they had one. But be careful not to be misled by the aerial connector box itself, which is often a black box where the cable connects to the aerial terminals. Such a 'box' is usually smaller than a masthead amplifier and is most definitely a part of the aerial itself (usually towards the rear of the aerial). A masthead amplifier is usually attached to the aerial pole close to the aerial but definitely not part of it.

If you get your binoculars out you should see two cables to the masthead amp; one going to the aerial and one towards the house (there might possibly be more than two depending on the amplifier, but only one cable will go to the aerial).

A common configuration, even with a masthead amplifier, is for the cable to the house to enter the attic and then be connected to a splitter/distribution amplifier, to which multiple TV-points can be connected for various rooms. In such cases, power has to be supplied to the distribution amplifier and this can also be a convenient place to locate the power supply for the masthead amplifier. Thus, the lack of a PSU behind the TV is not definite proof that it's missing.

However, if it does turn out to be missing then I'm fairly confident that spares are fairly generic (though I understand, and share, MdB's hesitancy because there's always one exception!). But Maplin (among others) sells masthead amplifier PSUs that don't seem to be specific to any particular model of masthead amplifiers - indeed, this model is specifically stated to be suitable for all installations:
http://www.maplin.co.uk/masthead-power-supply-unit-44214

But it might be worth a quick check in the attic first.

While I'm picking your brains (not for the first time, I'm afraid!) I believe that the digital TV signal is due to be boosted, once the digital switchover takes place. We receive TV from the Tacolneston mast (maybe you do, too?) - our analogue BBC2 was apparently switched off a couple of weeks ago and the rest of the channels are scheduled to go this coming week. Do you happen to know when the digital signal boost will take place?

Yes, Tacolneston is also our local transmitter, though I confess to not paying much attention to what's been happening with the digital changeover. But I do know that we receive a pretty good signal, even without a masthead amplifier and also through some very tall nearby trees, so you shouldn't really be having too many problems - especially as you're a bit closer to the transmitter.

Tacolneston transmitter info is here: http://www.ukfree.tv/txdetail.php?a=TM131958, but a quick glance didn't suggest a forthcoming power increase, though perhaps it has already happened?