TP Link - Wi Fi Solution for thick walls

[masochists-r-us]

Hi Everyone,
We have a very old house with 18 thick walls and a couple of large inglenooks. As a result, WiFi speed (and mobile phones) can be unpredictable. We recently had SkyQ installed and the engineer predicted issues with WIFi speed and suggested the best option to resolve is either hard wire with Ethernet cable (disruptive and messy so not ideal) or TP Link. The idea is to harness the home wiring system to distribute WiFi around the house via socket plug ins. Before we invest, has anyone out there with similar issues tried it and what are your experiences ?

 

[kreyszig]

They do work - bear in mind that TP-link is just a manufacturer, if you search for "Powerline" adaptors you will have a better choice.
The downside is that (if wifi enabled) they will create a new wifi hotspot where they are plugged in, so you will have more than one wifi access point and password in the house.
I have a few powerline adaptors throughout the house and it can be frustrating if I want to move a smart bulb to a different zone for example - I have to reconfigure it to talk to the nearest access point. You might also find that your phone/laptop/etc clings on to a weak signal when you're moving around rather than switching to a better but different access point.
If you want a single, large wifi zone, it might be worth looking at a mesh system. Powerline is definitely a simple and effective way to get good range.

 

[Kearn]

My experience is mixed. In principle a great solution, which is expandable and a cheap solution. In practice they can be temperamental to setup and to maintain, as oddly I have had issues appear suddenly for no apparent reason in what was a perfectly functional setup. They are plug and play, with a WPS button to connect, although I have wasted many hours trying to get mine to work and I can work my way around a laptop adequately. However, if you need a solution that doesn't involve hardwiring, then this is it, just expect to have to meddle occasionally!

The downside is that (if wifi enabled) they will create a new wifi hotspot where they are plugged in, so you will have more than one wifi access point and password in the house.

In theory you set them all to be the same SSID and password as the router, so that the challenge above is avoided, but this doesn't stop mobile phones for example, hanging on to an almost out of reach plug's signal when you move away from it, even when a stronger point is closer - but some of this challenge could be aimed at the phone or device rather than the wifi plug. Foe example my phone only sees one instance of the WiFi but other devices such as the Sky box sees all three identically named instances of the same WiFi seperately.

Working out the best positioning for each plug for WiFi coverage is trial and error really.

The LAN cable options are useful to connect a Sky box/TV directly rather than rely on WiFi, although I have found that having three LAN cables from one extender isn't great provision of connection - assume there is some throttling involved.

One last consideration, is the power circuits within your house and any later additions / extensions, as we have more than one mains ring for sockets due to a later kitchen extension, the plugs will only function on the same ring as the master plug attached to your router.

 

[Flyfisher]

We had similar problems and now have three wifi access points for indoor coverage plus another weatherproof one for outdoor coverage.

I'd agree that the best option is fixed ethernet wiring, in terms of speed and reliability but appreciate this is not always convenient. During our repair works I've installed cat5e wiring wherever possible and brought each run back to a single 'hub' cabinet located in our new boiler room. This allows for very easy patching of network devices and telephones as required (and just recently temperature sensors, but that's another topic!) and I use this fixed wiring to the wifi access points located around the house.

However, it has not been possible to install fixed wiring everywhere and so I have also used various 'Powerline' devices to provide ethernet over the mains wiring with great success. I've used Netgear and TP-Link devices and a mixture of fixed wire only (ie devices that only provide ethernet ports to plug into) and wifi devices. I've lost track of the latest speeds and standards but all the devices I've used have worked together with no apparent compatibility problems. However, bear in mind that actual throughput speeds will depend on the quality of the mains wiring and while the devices at each end will 'auto-negotiate' the fastest speed possible it may not be the maximum in theory. In practice, speed issues are only likely to be a problem with things like video streaming but the only real way to find out for sure is to try things in your particular situation. In our case, streaming video to my iPad works fine. Things like email and web browsing are generally not speed critical and I'd be very surprised if powerline devices would not be suitable.

Incidentally, as well as the 'plug-in' devices from the likes of TP-Link, I've recently seen double mains sockets with the same powerline technology built-in, thus providing an ethernet connection on the same faceplate as the two mains sockets. I've also seen 'wifi extenders' built into mains sockets. Have a look at these:
https://www.screwfix.com/p/british-general-922wr-13a-2g-sp-wi-fi-extender-socket-white/7706V
https://www.screwfix.com/p/wifi-connekt-single-band-n300-13a-2-gang-switched-socket-with-ethernet-2-0a-usb/3628V

I've no experience of these particular devices but they indicate how established 'Powerline' has become.

Personally, I'd choose to try plug-in Powerline units first because they are very easy to move around from room to room to experiment with getting the best coverage and performance, then perhaps change to the integrated faceplate devices if you want the neatest possible solution (a stage I've not yet bothered with :lol: ).

Just to comment on a couple of the previous points, it is most certainly possible (and very simple) to set all wifi access points to the same SSID and password as I have done just that and it works fine. Kearn's comment about a wifi device 'hanging on' to a weak signal as you move around the house is a fair point though I think this is more to do with how the mobile wifi device - some do and some don't - but it's not a big problem.

As for running Powerline devices across different ring mains, I've not found that to be a problem. Indeed, I have an outdoor socket wired into a lighting circuit (suitably labelled for 'Lighting Only') and successfully used a Powerline wifi device in that socket for outdoor coverage before I installed a fixed-wired outdoor access point. I've read that they won't work across different phases, but I doubt that many of us have three-phase mains supplies. Powerline devices are also not generally recommended for use in socket strips but I've done this temporarily without problem. I suspect such a configuration reduces the speed of the Powerline connection rather than absolutely prevent it from working, so whether this is actually a problem will depend on the application.

 

[mardinor]

I agree with all the earlier comments. We have smiliar stone walls and have used Devolo power line adapters for about 8 years now, initially for wired Ethernet off the adapters and now mainly for wifi. They last about 2 years before going bust, usually within warranty so I'd recommend Amazon!

When they work they are fantastic. Like others, I've found you need to factor in to reset/ troubleshoot for no apparent reason - about 2 hours of swearing and YouTube searching a year I reckon.

The Devolo ones are good at all having the same password and seamlessly transferring signal to the strongest. There is no difference at all as you move around the house (I have four wifi zones through these). On the other hand their instruction manual is beyond shockingly bad.

 

[a twig]

Incidentally, as well as the 'plug-in' devices from the likes of TP-Link, I've recently seen double mains sockets with the same powerline technology built-in, thus providing an ethernet connection on the same faceplate as the two mains sockets. I've also seen 'wifi extenders' built into mains sockets. Have a look at these:
https://www.screwfix.com/p/british-general-922wr-13a-2g-sp-wi-fi-extender-socket-white/7706V
https://www.screwfix.com/p/wifi-connekt-single-band-n300-13a-2-gang-switched-socket-with-ethernet-2-0a-usb/3628V

I've no experience of these particular devices but they indicate how established 'Powerline' has become.

...

As for running Powerline devices across different ring mains, I've not found that to be a problem. Indeed, I have an outdoor socket wired into a lighting circuit (suitably labelled for 'Lighting Only') and successfully used a Powerline wifi device in that socket for outdoor coverage before I installed a fixed-wired outdoor access point. I've read that they won't work across different phases, but I doubt that many of us have three-phase mains supplies. Powerline devices are also not generally recommended for use in socket strips but I've done this temporarily without problem. I suspect such a configuration reduces the speed of the Powerline connection rather than absolutely prevent it from working, so whether this is actually a problem will depend on the application.

Some brush tarring going on here - the first device is not Power line, it is a WiFi repeater. If that's the type of device you have been using in your house then of course it will work across different ring mains as all it is taking from the ring main is power, the Comms is done wirelessly.

The second device is Powerline.
Powerline modulates your network signal onto the ring main, in effect using your poorly shielded and cheaply manufactured T+E as a network cable. It is a terrible idea and should be avoided, Google is your friend for detailed explanations why.

In short, bite the bullet and run Cat6 cable.

 

[Flyfisher]

I did say I hadn't used those devices in my suggested links, so my other comments did not refer to them.

You're right that wifi repeaters do not use Powerline technology (i.e. data over mains cables) but they also have their uses when trying to extend wifi range and, of course, their own specific advantages and disadvantages (like most comms technologies).

I stand by my comments about Powerline devices as I've actually used them, with the results I described, and there really is no doubt that they work and can be very useful in certain circumstances, again with their own specific advantages and disadvantages, so I think it somewhat unfair to suggest it is a terrible idea.

Indeed, in many respects it could be considered eminently sensible to utilise the mains wiring already installed in every building in the country instead of ripping up floors and damaging walls just to install new cabling. It may not be the technologically optimum solution, but then neither is the use of outdated telephone wires for delivering high speed broadband services. :wink:

 

[kreyszig]

Thanks for the tips above about setting my SSID and password to the same values. Why on earth I didn't think that would work is beyond me! I have spent ages trying to find a way to get the things to act as extenders.. so when I feel like reprogramming my lights again, I shall make the switch to a common SSID!

 

[steveb]

I have similar setup but had more luck with my "extended" part of the network being on a different SSID and channel so they are distinctively different.

I guess it depends on what devices you use and how they behave - but another thumbs up for powerline type devices to extend WIFI. They work flawlessly for me - apart from the far end station needing a power off and on again once every few weeks..

 

[fernicarry]

the plugs will only function on the same ring as the master plug attached to your router

Like all of these things that piggy-back onto the mains wiring, how far the signal travels is mainly a function of cable length and things on the cable that absorb some of the signal. In fact there is nothing stopping your signal propagating into neighbouring buildings which is why you have the little button on the adapter to set up your own encryption code. It won't travel across phases though if you have a 3-phase cable head.

We're almost exclusively hard-wired with CAT cable here, but I do have powerline out to the garage over about 30m of gnarly, old T&E. As I rewired the house and cut back all the extra random bits of cable that had accumulated over the years the powerline signal strength at the garage improved somewhat. It does seem to prefer a power cycle every so often though which is annoying as the server lives in the garage. You can't have too much CAT cable IMO, I'd only use wifi or powerline as a last resort.

I also have quite a lot of X-10, another thing that communicates over mains wiring, which works surprisingly well with a few strategically-placed filters.

-AL

 

[Anonymous]

Since this is my area of "expertise" (though I use the term loosely) I will offer only this in addition to what's already been said.
Wifi is rubbish... no it really is, sometimes it works, sometimes it works well, often there are problems and interference and and and and and don't use it if you live in an old house with thick internal walls, old lead wiring and and and... apart from that it'll be fantastic... So to Powerline in theory a great idea however if your ring mains are split then it shouldn't work, since as I understand it, it uses the earth wire to send the signal to the adapters (here's hoping you don't have a short)...

To be totally honest I've used all the gadgets and gizmos going on the market and none of them will beat a piece of CAT 5 / 6 (5 is easier and cheaper to run imho but I've no axe to grind either way)... I have an old BT home hub connected to cat 5 which is then connected to the new BT home hub so I have split wifi zones but then you have to remember to make sure that they broadcast on different channels otherwise you'll get drop out (poor signal coverage) where the waves overlap... apart from that whatever works my friend, whatever works.

 

[Flyfisher]

Wifi is rubbish... no it really is, sometimes it works, sometimes it works well,

A good summary, I'd say. :lol:
There are so many variables involved that absolute answers are pretty much impossible and it mostly depends on trial and error, especially when larger houses and thicker walls are involved. What's mildy amusing is that as wifi standards have been 'improved' over the years, the faster speeds have utilised higher radio frequencies, which are more susceptible to propagation problems, leading to shorter ranges. Fine if you live in a one room city flat but not so good where thick walls are involved, even with very clever modern technology to help reduce such limitations (e.g. multi-antenna 'beam-forming').

So to Powerline in theory a great idea however if your ring mains are split then it shouldn't work, since as I understand it, it uses the earth wire to send the signal to the adapters (here's hoping you don't have a short)...

Not sure why that should matter, since all earth wires (and live/neutrals) should be commoned anyway and if you don't have an earth wire to your mains sockets then you have bigger problems than Powerline not working :wink: I suspect the variability of experiences concerning Powerline over different ring mains is more to do with consumer unit devices such as RCDs, which may affect the data signals. Also, surge supressors and interference filters (often used to 'protect' PCs etc) will likely interfere with the data signals, as will any 'noisy' appliances on the mains circuits. Add the variable quality of mains wiring and distances into the equation and I can quite easily see how Powerline may sometimes work across different ring mains but not always, just as it may work over shorter distances better than over longer distances. Don't forget that different ring mains (on the same phase) are not electrically isolated - they are only 'separated' by fuses/RCDs etc. - so there's no inherent reason why it shouldn't work.

To be totally honest I've used all the gadgets and gizmos going on the market and none of them will beat a piece of CAT 5 / 6 (5 is easier and cheaper to run imho but I've no axe to grind either way)...

Agreed.
And as far as the differences between Cat5/cat5e/Cat6 cabling is concerned, I don't believe it makes any practical difference in a household environment where cable runs are typically much shorter than the defined standards and the ultimate performance is simply not required. Cat5 cable will support Gigabit Ethernet over a 100m cable run. If you need more than that at home then you are running some very demanding IT systems indeed. :wink:

... apart from that whatever works my friend, whatever works.

Amen

 

[Me!]

I can quite easily see how Powerline may sometimes work across different ring mains but not always, just as it may work over shorter distances better than over longer distances. Don't forget that different ring mains (on the same phase) are not electrically isolated - they are only 'separated' by fuses/RCDs etc. - so there's no inherent reason why it shouldn't work.

I can add that Powerline adaptors do work in France, and the reason I mention this is that in France there are no ring mains. Everything is on spurs back to the consumer unit, so no different in Powerline signal terms than travelling between two different ring mains in the UK.

 

[steveb]

As I understand it, it is not earth signalling but phase signalling - so the signal should be able to be picked up by anything close enough and on the same phase. So a typical house with one consumer unit every power socket will be on a single phase no matter how it is wired - rings, radials, spurs etc - they all share a common live on the same phase, so you can plug in a powerline adapter anywhere and it will pick up the signal.

This also applies to any neighbouring house on the same phase (1 in every 3 houses will be on the same phase, but it may not be strict 1,2,3,1,2,3 ordering) if they are close enough / signal is strong enough hence the need to "pair" powerline devices to make them share the same encryption settings.

We have the master unit upstairs inside and the slave in the garden , which goes via about 50m of SWA cable , a mini consumer unit in the shed, then another 10M of SWA cable to another consumer unit in a "summer house" which has the slave powerline adapter and re-broadcasts the wifi to the garden

 

[skier-hughes]

I have no idea how it works, but I have a mixture of powerline adaptors with just wired connections to my pc/talk talk tv box and NAS. I have some wireless adapters dotted around to boost the signal for phone, tablet and laptop usage.

I've found devolo to be an excellent make, having used several over the years and in different situations, including work.

Our house has 3 old consumer units, gradually being phased out and two new ones and the powerline system works all over the house, in old and new sockets. It has never worked on the outside sockets though, which was a pain when we had the caravan site!

 

[Flyfisher]

Our house has 3 old consumer units, gradually being phased out and two new ones and the powerline system works all over the house, in old and new sockets. It has never worked on the outside sockets though, which was a pain when we had the caravan site!

That's a good point - we also have three consumer units and our powerline units work across them.

As for them not working outside in your caravan site, I'm guessing that would be a combination of distance and (if you had them) meters, as I've read that some meters have filters that will reduce/remove the powerline signals.

When I installed some outdoor power sockets, I also laid a couple of Cat5e cables - which seemed overkill at the time but cost almost nothing extra and has proved to be very useful for connecting an outdoor access point in the summer, among other things

 

[skier-hughes]

No meters to the caravan points. I wondered if it was the different type of plug used to connect to the connection points, but it's still 3 pin, no idea if it is wired any differently, I should think not. I wonder if the normal 3 pin plugs outside carry a signal, I never tried that. I might when the weather warms and I get rid of this flu.