Toilet design

[edward55]

Does anyone know what you would call this style of toilet pan?

The waste trap is internal and feeds straight down into the floor, presumably somewhere near the front. Thanks to anyone who can enlighten me.

 

[Moo]

I'm afraid I can't help with your question, Edward, but since you've raised the question of toilet design I'm going to use it as an opportunity to add another strand to your thread:

Our downstairs loo (a bog-standard [cue lavatorial puns] model) is annoyingly inefficient and I'm wondering (a) whether we should replace it and (b) if so, with what?
Once upon a time my mother had something called a syphonic loo installed, which was both quiet and efficient, and I'm toying with the idea of getting something similar, if they're still available. Or is there an 'orthodox' model available that directs the water in a more effective way? Or should we go for something really basic with an old-fashioned high-level cistern?

 

[worms]

I don't have an answer but recently while installing a new toilet, I did an on-line search for DIY tips and was surprised to find that all the US websites showed the waste connection coming up through the floor directly below the pan, in the same way as yours. I had never appreciated this aspect of transatlantic technological drift.

 

[lordmulberry]

We still have a syphonic toilet made by Ideal Standard. They were the "Rolls Royce" of toilets in their time - so I was given to understand. When we had to have a new syphon installed we were told that these toilets are no longer manufactured. Something to do with the amount of water (9 litres) they required for efficient operation. We did get a new syphon that is adjustable for the amount of water it uses but the toilet does seem to operate better with 9 litres.

With the cost of water set to rise a toilet that uses less or has a dual flush system would be more economical .

Cheers

 

[worms]

Moo, I would have thought the syphonic reference might refer to the normal modern syphon cistern, where the entry of air at the end of the flush allows the closure of the valve.

I get annoyed (I would have said p****d off, but the pun would be too cruel in this context) by poor design in bathroom equipment. It seems we have become so obsessed with modernity in appearance and forgotten that these items need to function properly too. We had a toilet that didn't direct water all round the bowl, taps that were impossible to turn with wet hands, a bath cunningly designed so that any water on the edge has to go out rather than in and a sink that manages a laws-of-pysics-defying trick whereby any ripples magnify themselves until a tsunami comes over the side!

 

[JohnB]

Surely a proper period property should have an outside loo, or you chuck it out of the window onto passers by :lol:.

 

[AMc]

@Moo Go and have a look at http://www.stiffkeybathrooms.com/ on Upper Giles Street.
My partner's 1870 French 5'8" roll top bath came from there - it cost more than my car is worth - but it is truly a thing of wonder & awe. Then go to B&Q and buy a bog

@Edward55 you could email them - they're pretty clued up.

 

[Penners]

I've never seen a pan like Edward's before, but toilets whose outflow went vertically downwards used to be quite common - they're known as S-trap. Nowadays it seems all pans are made to the P-trap pattern (no, it's not a pun!), where the outflow exits slightly below the horizontal, at the back. If your drainage pipe runs down through the floor, you simply used a right-angle adaptor.

Moo, I'm not sure whether syphonic toilets are still made, but they certainly were very efficient. They actually have/had two traps. Flushing would start the second trap flowing first, and this would suck the first trap out.

I'm sure if you ask around the bathroom specialists you'll be able to find out whether you can still get one. Although I have to say that, despite worms' unfortunate experiences, my limited experience of today's bogs is that they're pretty efficient, and use much less water than the older ones.

 

[Moo]

@Moo Go and have a look at http://www.stiffkeybathrooms.com/ on Upper Giles Street.

What a good idea! I really can't imagine why I didn't think of that myself - I know them to chat with,and they're charming chaps. I'll pop down the road to have a word with them tomorrow.

As far as the quantity of water needed, I can see the point of using less per flush, but it rather defeats the object if you have to go back and flush it a second time, doesn't it?

 

[Penners]

Sound scientific thinking there, Moo.

I once tried to persuade a publican to extend the length of time that his hot-air hand dryer ran, in the gents. But I couldn't get him to understand that it was cheaper for him to have it set to run for 90 seconds for a complete hand-dry, instead of 60 seconds - which prompted all users to press the button twice.

 

[edward55]

For those that are interested, it turns out that this trap configuration is known as a "London trap".

 

[robgil]

a syphon loo as i understand it uses a syphon built into the trap to suck the waste away rather than flush it away.
i just picked up this victorian/edwardian beauty from e bay , a quick clean with harpic and its as good as new.

 

[Moo]

Just out of interest - how much did you pay for it?

And - if I were to get a syphonic model, would it be difficult (aka expensive) to remove the existing pan and replace it with the new/reclaimed one?

 

[robgil]

just shy of 30 quid Moo , a bargain
replacing a pan is quite easy , the only thing that might cause problems is if your new pan goes into the floor and your old pan goes out through the wall.

 

[Moo]

Oh dear. I think that my old pan goes into the wall, and we have a solid floor covered with expensive marmoleum.
It looks as though I'll just have to carry on with the double-flushing.

 

[robgil]

Oh dear. I think that my old pan goes into the wall, and we have a solid floor covered with expensive marmoleum.
It looks as though I'll just have to carry on with the double-flushing.

thats not a problem , you just have to get a siphonic pan with a horizontal outlet , just make sure the outlet position matches the position of the hole in your wall.

some diagrams here that may help. http://www.bathroomobsoletes.co.uk/B1.asp


why do you need to flush twice? are you sure your existing cistern siphon isnt faulty?

 

[Penners]

I think that my old pan goes into the wall

I don't think that should necessarily be a problem, Moo. Toilet pans used to be made with P-traps and S-traps, so if your outflow goes into the wall, just be sure to look for one with a P-trap.

Edit: sorry to duplicate, robgil. I didn't spot your response on this page before I responded to Moo's post on the last page.

 

[Moo]

Thanks to both of you for setting my mind at rest - and especially for that link. I've printed it off for future reference.

 

[AMc]

It looks as though I'll just have to carry on with the double-flushing.

There was a person on Dragons Den (X Factor for accountants) who demonstrated a retro fitted flush mechanism that allowed you to control the amount of water delivered. It might not prevent the double flush, but at least the second one would use less water.

http://www.interflush.co.uk/htm/interflush_video.htm

IIRC the Dragons objected to looking in the loo while they flushed so didn't invest, personally I suspect they're so mean fisted that they only use other people's loos