To Chandelier or not to Chandelier :)

[atlasfever]

Hello,

Now that my floor is resolved, I can get back to more interesting stuff.

Question: how do you space your chandeliers? i.e. how many chandeliers per room? Is there a rule of thumb?
Background: 1st floor, Georgian Flat
Rooms: 2 Front rooms. Room A: 15x24ft Room B: 15x13ft Ceiling Height: 12ft ; Both rooms have those oversized 9foot sash windows with shutters, recessed into the wall. The two rooms are linked together. Room A has 3 windows; Room B has 2 windows. Each room has an attractive fireplace/stack at the far ends.

- I plan to have the same wall paint and flooring between the two rooms, as the smaller one is a kitchen and the larger a living & dining
- no original decorative plaster remaining b/c of plasterboard ceiling
- can insert light fixtures wherever I want as the current ones are hideous down lights. hideous and don't trust the wiring anyway.
- want the same chandelier fixture in both rooms
- plan on doing decorative plaster designs copied from the 3 townhouses on either side, built by same builder/years. Identical buildings.

Key: I do plan on putting a crystal type chandelier in the kitchen, and wondering if I should put 1 or 2 in the larger room. Ignoring any knock on effects such as decorative ceilings, etc, what would be better? Given the dimensions? There is something lovely about having two chandeliers in the one room (with the 3rd one identical), but maybe it's too much? I have been looking at similar homes around, and I've seen 1 and 2 chandeliers in rooms that are 3 windows wide, but hard to tell if it's original or not. When I go to bedford square at night (yes, I've become a voyeur), I have seen gorgeous plaster work, and one chandelier in rooms with 3 windows mostly. Though, I did see again, 2 chandeliers in a couple of the buildings. Anyone know? When the plaster design guy came, he did say that the space might be tight for a rose plus a swag/drop design, etc for 2 chandeliers.

Feedback welcomed.

 

[atlasfever]

One clarification: My building is double fronted, while the other 3 are not. So, those buildings only have one 3 window wide room at the front, while I have 2 rooms, and a total of 5 windows. thanks

 

[Lime]

I don't think there are any rules where old lights were fitted.
In general a single light (gasalier, chandelier, electrolier or whatever) may be roughly central in a ceiling of a moderate sized room but off-centre to align with the centre of the fireplace if it were not symmetrical. (So that the overmantle mirror would reflect the light back into the room)
However the quest for the right appearance was not of the greatest importance for most people.
The fact that they HAD lights fitted in the ceiling would have been impressive enough.
If more ceiling lights were fitted they may be symmetrically positioned unless the use of the room demanded otherwise.
Remember in the old days lights were for specific tasks, not for general illumination, and it was not uncommon for a gas light to be fitted in some of the most strange of places.
Wall lights were very common and were placed for convenience of use rather than symmetry. (In upstairs rooms in the case of gas they were cheaper to fit.)
In the first half of the 1900s it was common for the bedroom ceiling light (if fitted) to be near a window to prevent silhouettes of undressed persons.

Obviously for the aristocracy and those wishing to show their wealth lighting would be placed to impress rather than for convenience in public rooms.

 

[plasticpigeon]

Hi Atlas

I'm sorry I can't really answer your question, although my preference would be for one chandelier per room, even though your rooms are quite big. I think 2 would make it look over fussy.

I know there are people on this forum who are very knowledgeable about Georgian design, Gareth and Joce, spring to mind and I'm sure they will have some great ideas. Gareth always finds some beautiful pictures. I must find out what sources he has. It seems like your house is a bit of a blank canvas with regards to decoration and interior design. Like you I would want to reinstate what I believe would be authentic for the period.

I live in a humble 3 bed railway workers terrace from around 1900, and have found details on decor of the period hard to come by, as most information available is for grander houses. However over time I have started to build up a good idea of both what kind of person lived in my house (a signalman) what the decor might have been, and also what I like and what is important to me. I've got info from this forum, books, both of the period and more modern, looking on the internet, museums and like you, dare I say it, snooping around. I find that modern decor books dealing with period properties are not what I want, but I have found some amazing modern books with period paintings and photographs from the era I'm interested in. I would imagine that since Georgian properties are so desirable, there must be even more info out there, than for my type of house. If you can afford to do things slowly, then I'm sure once you have assimilated lots of ideas from various sources they will consolidate into a very clear idea of what you want to achieve and how you want to use the space you have. This was advice i was given, and although I didn't believe it at the time, and things have gone slowly in my place due to other circumstances, it has turned out to be for the best as far as getting the big decisions right is concerned.

 

[LadyArowana]

Either one or two pieces in the main room could be harmonious, as long as the design of the plasterwork is sympathetic. Personally I love chandeliers, but would probably just go for one big one. Also not sure that they need to match between the two rooms. IIRC there is only a small door between and with one being a kitchen, and not huge, it may not be the best look for that room ( Clive Christian would of course disagree.... )

 

[JoceAndChris]

I think one per room but big ones. I say this because I think it will be easier to incorporate the plaster ceiling around one fitting, rather than two. I'd supplement this with paired, symmetrical crystal wall fittings, I regret not doing this in our dining room. I thought the big chandelier would be enough and it is, for the purposes of illuminating dinner, but what I didn't realise was how I'd like light thrown onto the rather dark back wall of the room, which functions as a kind of walkway to the music room. Lamps can also address this issue if you want to keep the walls clear - though in my case there aren't sockets so do have a think about this as you're starting out to get it right.

I like this advice on choosing size - it comes from that Bonds chandelier website I linked to in the other thread.

" Whilst chandeliers can be appropriate in any type of room, choosing the correct size is paramount. A giant chandelier will overcome a tiny room whilst a small chandelier hung over a long dining room table will look lost. In general, a smaller room with dimensions of 10 x 10 ft (3.05 x 3.05 metres) would comfortably house a chandelier no more than 20 inches (50.8 cm) in diameter. A 12 x 12 ft (3.66 x 3.66 metres) room will hold a chandelier up to 27 inches (68.58 cm) in diameter. A larger chandelier with a diameter of 36 inches (91.44 cms) or more should only be hung in a room that is 14 x 14 ft (4.27 x 4.27 metres) or larger.

When choosing a chandelier to hang over a table, the chandelier should normally hang at lease 30 inches (76.2 cm) from the surface of the table and should be about 12 inches (30.48 cm) narrower than the table's width. Please note, the sizes quoted of all our chandeliers do not include the chain. This can be removed or shortened as desired.

For rooms with lower ceilings, see our range of 'flush fitting' ceiling lights.

Following guidelines such as these when choosing your next chandelier should help create a tasteful and elegant home, which will bring pleasure for many years."

This is also very true


"Are there any basic rules to use when planning a lighting design?

One basic, but often overlooked rule of efficient lighting is to put light where you need it. However, to insure an attractive, comfortable lighting atmosphere, you must also think about balancing light. It is essential to create an effective spread of light through each room and have it flow seamlessly between rooms. The best way to achieve this balance in a well-decorated room is to layer light sources. The first step to lighting design is to identify the main activity areas or the room’s focal points. Any room with multiple focal points will be the most visually interesting and balanced. This is where the brightest layer of light should be directed. The next step is a middle layer of light that provides interest in specific areas without detracting from focal points. The last layer fills in the background.

The first two layers are supplied by task and/or accent lighting, depending on what is being lit. The third and lower-level ambient lighting is usually indirect like that provided by wall sconces. Once the essential layers are in place the decorative pieces can be added. "

In lighting your rather palatial flat don't think about what the Georgians did, as of course they just had a few candles, think about what's on offer now and how you can best create a warm and welcoming atmosphere, with the detailing echoing Georgian design.

 

[JoceAndChris]

Gareth always finds some beautiful pictures. I must find out what sources he has.

Gareth is extremely well informed and as an architect has worked on Buckingham Palace and Caius College, Cambridge and other G1 buildings, though of course he'd be far too modest to ever say, and as a CO he sees all manner of things. Pretty much everything I've learned about the period has been from him, as well as the books he's recommended, and the Georgian buildings he's taken me to see, or told me to go and see. This, on top of all the other wonderful practical advice and help I've had on here has made my project tremendously informed and such fun. I feel so privileged to have found PPUKe.

 

[Gareth Hughes]

 

[MdB]

Gareth can also be used as a small glowing heat source in an emergency. He has multiple uses.

 

[MdB]

In my opinion it is important not to overdo chandelier hanging.

I would suggest that you start off with something understated such as the following:

You can then add additional chandeliers as required.

 

[Gareth Hughes]

Chandeliers in the kitchen? No. No, no no no no no no.
Two chandeliers in an average-sized three-window-long Georgian drawing room? probably not, as it's more likely there would have been wall-sconces, perhaps in front of pier-glasses, on the two sections of wall between the windows.
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain! The Great Oz has spoken!

Edit: I told you to leave that curtain alone! But I see that the "kitchen" is actually part of the first floor reception suite. Chandelier away!

 

[Gareth Hughes]

Three Georgian town house 1st floor drawing rooms, showing lighting positions. 1 Royal Crescent, Bath; "The Georgian House", Edinburgh; 6 Fitzroy Square, London (HQ of the Georgian Group); note also the plain ceilings, in what are all very grand addresses:

 

[Nigel Watts]

I agree with Gareth - one not two.

When my architects specified the rewiring of my house they insisted that our bedroom (only two bays, not three) should have two light fittings in the ceiling not one. I disagreed, but they went ahead anyway. I have never been happy with the result and the floor above, which is now covered in plywood and a fitted carpet, in no longer accessible to fix the problem. It had previously only had one central fitting so I am thinking of making a hole where the old one was and seeing if I can pick up the cable.

Incidentally the dates of the buildings in Gareth's pictures are c. 1770, 1791 and 1798. All have dados. Is the wall below the dado in Fitzroy square panelled or white painted plaster? I would guess the latter:

 

[JoceAndChris]

I think so too Nigel, and also think when you redo your lovely lovely bedroom one fitting would be nicer.

Pretty piccies! Gorgeous, nice to see those.

Just like to point Gareth's attention to the cloud blinds, he hasn't completely approved my plan to make these for the music room.

 

[LadyArowana]

cloud blinds, .

A.K.A "tarts knickers", not sure why, as they are prone to being a complete nightmare to get up and down :lol:

 

[Lime]

cloud blinds, .

A.K.A "tarts knickers", not sure why, as they are prone to being a complete nightmare to get up and down :lol:

I think you have just got to have the knack.

 

[atlasfever]

Thanks for the feedback, all.

I really like this comment:
"In lighting your rather palatial flat don't think about what the Georgians did, as of course they just had a few candles, think about what's on offer now and how you can best create a warm and welcoming atmosphere, with the detailing echoing Georgian design" I believe the Lady is on to something here.

Now, interesting comment about not having a chandelier in my kitchen. Keep in mind that the smaller of the 2 rooms (still about 14x16 foot, so not so small...at least for central London will be the kitchen, and I really have little interest in down lighters, those tacky pendants over islands, etc. I'd like it to have a decadent feel. Ok, this all may just be in my head, at least

Also, interesting photos of the wall lights on the front of the fireplace stacks. I think I should definitely do this -- I guess a single or pair, to the right and left of the stack, but on the stack itself. Hopefully I can find matching wall lights to the chandeliers.

so many decisions.....

 

[philpjuk100]

Spotted at "Harry Potter world" :roll: