Timber for barge boards

[kreyszig]

This may be the year I get round to replacing the awful pvc bargeboards on the front of the house. (sped along slightly by one end having broken off in a storm last year leaving some rotten wood underneath exposed). It may not happen as there are valleys and sections of roof to redo, but it can't hurt to think ahead!

These bargeboards are fairly large - 4 or 5 metres long at a rough guess. The roof is quite steep, hence the length of the boards (and my not having measured them yet!). There is a chance that I could save whatever is underneath the upvc, but I won't know until that comes off. So, in preparation for a full replacement, I'm after suggestions for timber to use.

I am working on my own so weight is a bit of an issue. One slightly left field idea I had was making up a reinforced box section out of quite thin ply - does that sound nuts? It would be light enough for me to work with and I could potentially make each side in a couple of interlocking sections. I would be getting scaffolding so perhaps I needn't be so worried about weight.

Otherwise I don't really know where to start - collective wisdom of the forum would be much appreciated.

 

[dandrew]

In my neighbourhood, bargeboards range in size from about an inch thick and 9 inches wide to 1-and-a-half inches thick and over a foot wide for those that are pierced out/fretted. Trying to manhandle such a long length of timber up a ladder by yourself is a non-starter for me so you'll need a scaffold. If you are getting roofwork done then it makes sense to do the bargeboards at the same time, when the scaffold is up.

As to material, they are simply painted softwood, so whatever you fancy from your local timber yard - cost will depend on size and species. I doubt ply would have the longevity you are after because as soon as you cut it you expose the laminations and this will be where the water gets in. I'd paint them on all sides with 3 coats of whichever paint you think is best. I'm quite happy with linseed-oil based paints, even on south facing elevations in dark colours, but whatever you use you don't want to have to re-paint it every year. A fourth coat when fixed to cover over screw/nail heads seems sensible to me.

David

 

[kreyszig]

My neighbour somehow managed to replace his off a ladder, on his own some years back, and the thought of trying that scares the living daylights out of me!

 

[Flyfisher]

I wholeheartedly agree with the above comments about not handling large, awkward pieces of wood up a ladder - we certainly don't want to lose you from the forum! Even if you managed to climb to the top, there's the little matter of holding it with one hand while trying to fix it with the other. Not my idea of fun. :shock:

However, I know only too well how expensive scaffolding can be so would suggest looking at hiring a cherry picker, assuming you have adequate access. I've managed to hire one locally for less than £200 per day, delivered before 9am and collected around 5pm. If you're properly prepared and have everything to hand, this might be a cheaper option than scaffolding. Just a thought.

 

[a twig]

I would be getting scaffolding so perhaps I needn't be so worried about weight.

While I'm sure kreyzig appreciates your concern he has stated that there will be scaffolding in place.

When I re-did mine (with scaffold) I just used 3m x 19mm x 240mm pine planks with a good dousing in cuprinol before they were fitted.- they have done the job magnificently. Admittedly this was using an old tin of non-EU compliant stuff so your mileage may vary in terms of longevity.

Anyhoo, point being it was an easy one man job off scaffold - get one corner in, then work along the length to far corner, simples...

 

[kreyszig]

all very useful ideas, thanks all. I had been thinking I'd have to go down the hardwood route which was the main reason for my concerns about weight. Pine it is! I have a valley to do in the same area so the extra scaffolding shouldn't add too much to the cost, I hope. And it will certainly be cheaper than getting someone in to do it for me!

 

[MikeG]

Again, this is one of those "in the dark" questions. What is the local vernacular? Would the building originally have had bargeboards? What sort of overhang are we talking about? What is the junction with the roofing material like? Lots of vernacular buildings didn't have bargeboards at all. Lots did. Photos would help, as would some photos of other buildings of the same type with more authentic original gable-end arrangements in place.

 

[kreyszig]

This is the house before we moved in - I've since refurbished all around the chimneys; its the large bargeboards at the front I'm asking about. You can see that our neighbour (it's a semi) has slightly longer boards.
We are the only building of this same style in the immediate area; around us we have late edwardian and 1920s+ houses which are fairly plain by comparison. Tempted as I am to whack some lovely fretted boards on I will probably try and match the neighbours' - I have a photo from the 1929 which shows them plain then (although dark). The valley I need to do is where the front pitch meets the shared slope - you can see the neighbours equivalent in the photo.
The verge area interests me - on the house behind us, which is one of the closest to this style in the area, the slates overhang the (painted dark) boards. On the neighbours' there is a moulding on the front of the board on which a plank is sitting that covers the ends of the slates (as per the other gables on our place). I prefer the former style, but I suppose the boards help with preventing the slates lifting in the wind.

Edit:
I seem to have misremembered the older photo I have. The boards look light, but I can't quite make out what is going on at the verge:

 

[MikeG]

Much better, thanks!! I wish that everyone would post a photo when asking a question, as advice varies so much depending on the circumstances.

Controversially, possibly, I would say that if you originally had a top board over the verges and the slates that you should omit it now. It is just about the silliest idea I have ever seen on a roof! They don't last 5 minutes, and serve only as a place for all sorts of gunk to collect, and for insects to make a home under. Historical accuracy, in this particular situation, can take a back seat to practicality in my book.

I would replace those boards with pressure treated softwood, and use an end-cut preservative wherever you cut them. I would then paint the mist coat and at least one top coat of Bedec Multi-Surface paint (all round, including all cuts and so on) down at ground level prior to fitting them, and follow up with another coat in situ. There is every chance they won't need re-coating for 12 to 15 years, and even then, they won't need stripping, sanding back or the like.........just a quick clean up and another coat brushed on.

 

[kreyszig]

Thanks Mike, I had seen your posts earlier about bedec msp and planned on trying it out. I would like to leave the top boards off; if I did this, Should I do anything to seal the ends of the slates? Also, aesthetically, should there be a moulding curving between the barge board and slates? I have seen so many variations of mortar/moulding/dry verge/you name it that I'm quite confused!

 

[MikeG]

My instinct would be to keep this junction (slate to barge-board) simple, and offer up without a moulding. However, if there are any unacceptable gaps, then you can apply a moulding afterwards. The slates will be fine without any attention, although you should put a silicon joint between the top of the bargeboard and the underside of the slate, assuming the latter oversails the former. Water always runs down the underside of the verge and can get on top of the bargeboard and sit there, eventually rotting it.

 

[kreyszig]

I'm sorry, it seems like you just advised me to apply silicone sealant to my slate roof..I am still on the period property forum, am I not?
Background: I've got the PO's previous attempts at slate repair with mastic, flashing repair with expanding foam and copious amounts of upvc to put me right off the idea. Is this an acceptable exception to my current no silicone rule?

 

[MikeG]

I'm sorry, it seems like you just advised me to apply silicone sealant to my slate roof..I am still on the period property forum, am I not?
Background: I've got the PO's previous attempts at slate repair with mastic, flashing repair with expanding foam and copious amounts of upvc to put me right off the idea. Is this an acceptable exception to my current no silicone rule?

Yep. To the junction between the underside of the slate overhang, and the top of the bargeboards. A neat bead of silicon along there will save you getting up there again to replace those boards. There isn't a period "gunk" that can do the equivalent job.

 

[kreyszig]

interesting! Thanks Mike, much appreciated!

 

[kreyszig]

apologies for reviving a dead thread - another question about the verge..
How should the vapour permeable membrane be finished if the slates are overhanging the bargeboards? Should it be cut just short of the bargeboard to allow a clean gap to silicone between the top of the bargeboard and the slates?

Edit: I think I can answer my own question here, having just read that it should be cut flush with the end rafter. I imagine I could upturn it slightly too behind the bargeboard. Any other opinions most welcome though

 

[MikeG]

........ I imagine I could upturn it slightly too behind the bargeboard.......

Is exactly the right answer. If you have easy access, then the top of the bargeboard because a useful line to run the Stanley knife along to trim the membrane.