Tidying up Stucco facade before redecorating?

[Nigel Watts]

I need to have my house repainted on the outside next year. Being a tall four storey townhouse this means full scaffolding.

Thinking ahead, I need to decide how much tidying up of the facade it is worth doing/paying for first.

Should I, for example, restore the rather scruffy bit of architrave shown below (I'm inclinded to think I should):

My neighbour's is in better shape, so I could copy hers:

But what about the nasty Sandtex type finish:

The whole facade is coated with this stuff, so if I start, where will it end?

Recent (cement based) render on a pillar at the bottom of the steps is failing. Is it normal to put rustable beads on exteriors - I assume not and that it should be removed - but should I strip the whole thing back and replace with Lime?:

I am also minded to change the colour of the exterior woodwork from black to grained medium oak, but will a painter do this for me? Perhaps I could get a pro to do all the donkey work (rubbing down, undercoating and final varnishing) and I could just swan in and do the fun graining bit?)

If scaffolding is up, should I go green and get some solar panels? These would be at the back, so listed building consent may well be forthcoming?

Some parts of my cast iron anthemion freize on the window cills (tiny bit visible in the pic of the neighbour's house) are broken. Should these be replaced?

Thoughts appreciated.

 

[Gareth Hughes]

If it was mine, I'd do all the things you suggest, except the "replace in lime" bit - not without checking that the original stucco really is a "vernacular" lime and not one of the various metropolitan patent compositions which were in vogue when the house was built.

 

[kevmiles1]

We did a very similar job in Bayswater a five story georgian building, I would suggest whilst you have the scaffolding up get all the things you need doing done. You can repair the render and get rid of the blown areas and repair any of the stucco quite easily wouldnt suggest using lime (for once) as it will cost you a huge amount and is pretty unneccesary. Is the building listed or in a conservation area?

 

[Nigel Watts]

If it was mine, I'd do all the things you suggest, except the "replace in lime" bit - not without checking that the original stucco really is a "vernacular" lime and not one of the various metropolitan patent compositions which were in vogue when the house was built.

Thanks Gareth. Do I take it you would try to strip off all the sandtexy stuff? Chemical methods seem to be the preferred way based on recent threads. A lesser option I thought of was to clean just the mouldings.

How does one test the nature of the stucco? Are there labs that do this?

To be honest I'm not too worried about the step pillar, which was completely rebuilt when I installed my replacement Portland stone steps, other than fixing the rusty corner.

We did a very similar job in Bayswater a five story georgian building, I would suggest whilst you have the scaffolding up get all the things you need doing done. You can repair the render and get rid of the blown areas and repair any of the stucco quite easily wouldnt suggest using lime (for once) as it will cost you a huge amount and is pretty unneccesary. Is the building listed or in a conservation area?

Grade II and in a conservation area. I get on well with the CO because I talk to him and take time to prepare good drawings and detailed descriptions of what I want to do.

 

[Gareth Hughes]

If full scaffolding is going to be a once in 15 years event, then I think you should take a deep breath and go for all the works you've suggested. Everything will look a lot better without the sandtex

As for identifying stucco, someone must be able to do it - I'd suggest contacting either the Georgian Group or SPAB to see if they can suggest anyone (if they can't, then there's nobody who does it).

A google for "identifying stucco" brings up a few likely-looking London based contractors, too

Some good info here on renders generally from those unlikely guardians of our heritage, the Ministry of Defence

http://www.defence-estates.mod.uk/publications/historic_buildings/PDF_8111/Technical 4 05.pdf

 

[Nigel Watts]

If full scaffolding is going to be a once in 15 years event

I wish it were that infrequent. The problem I have is with the window frames. These were done five or six years ago and badly need doing again, especially at the back which faces South. I believe the house has to be scaffolded just for this.

 

[JoceAndChris]

It's just the same story with the Highgate house (whose windows are a bit younger than yours) - every 5 or 6 years, and full scaffolding, and thousands of pounds. At least with yours it's all yours - and you know what's what, our flat at the bottom of the 6 storeys was so compromised by what everyone else was doing!

Still, your house is lucky to have such a caring owner, and it's in for an exciting time! I would want to get all the jobs you mention done too, if it was feasible.

Could you say a little more about the medium oak wood grain paint? Was it popular for exteriors in the 19th century?

 

[Flyfisher]

Well, if you had plastic windows they wouldn't need painting at all, never mind after only 5/6 years :wink: (Joke, honest!)

The rusty corner is annoying. We have some of those but thankfully only on some outbuildings. I presume stainless steel corners are available so why not use them in external applications? Cost I suppose. Ours seem to be galvanised but I guess the galvanising is of minimal quality and easily damaged during fixing to the wall. Once the rust gets hold it will fairly easily rust from the inside - just goes to show how "waterproof" the cement render really is :roll: .

 

[MattW]

I'm with the general consensus - do everything that requires scaffolding to get to it at the same time, don't bother with lime. Why people use textured paints on these houses I don't know - they look so much more attractive smooth finished. We have removed a whole section of it on our place, but unfortunately can't be any help to you - the cement render was so badly blown we removed it all and re-rendered.

 

[Penners]

I did contemplate showing the title of this thread to Mrs P while she was sitting at her dressing table, getting ready to go out.

But self-preservation is a powerful instinct.

 

[Nigel Watts]

Could you say a little more about the medium oak wood grain paint? Was it popular for exteriors in the 19th century?

Steven Parissien (whom I am confident with pass the Gareth test) says in "Regency Style" p.62 et seq:

"Window colours - always a topical subject with keen decorators - varied far more than is often believed. For much of the eighteenth century, window joinery had been painted white or another light colour. (Georgian "white", of course, was never akin to the bright, bleached whites so amenable to modern tastes; these stark whites remain very much a product of the twentieth century, being far too strident and dominating to be used on historical facades. Georgian whites were nearly always "broken" - mixed with a tiny proportion of darker paint to give a richer effect; the result was often called not simply "white" but "stone colour.) By the 1780s, however, some windows, particularly when in the context of painted stucco, were painted in darker hues. The architect John Yenn employed dark-grey windows in a villa design of 1769, while William Chambers used grey windows at Somerset House in London a few years later. By 1800 darker greys and browns were surprisingly popular for fashionable homes. Soane frequently used dark painted sashes, while the leases of Nash's Regent's Park development specifically called for the repainting of the windows in a brown, imitation oak graining every four years. Green, too, was used for Regency window joinery, particularly in rural "cottages ornes" and other products of the taste for the Picturesque. Jane Austen's Sense and Sensibility of 1811 condemned Barton Cottage for the fact that "the window shutters were not painted green"......Many of these darker colours were overpainted with cream as a result of the late ninteenth-century fashion for the chaste "Queen Anne" style, and very few have survived the twentieth century's rather disturbing passion to have everything whiter than white."

After reading this I changed my house from this:

to this

and wrote this
http://www.fitzwalter.com/house/colours.htm

 

[greentree]

Thats interesting, i found this link some time back via google whilst looking for some info, the house looks really good by the way.

 

[JoceAndChris]

I agree, I much prefer Nigel's authentic colour scheme. It's just a pity others won't follow suit and we still have great vistas of Dulux pure brilliant white in North London.

 

[DaveBrigg]

With Nigel's kind permission can I recommend the rest of his website detailing work on the house.
http://www.fitzwalter.com/house/home.htm

 

[Nigel Watts]

This website is now hideously out of date. I set it up in about 1999 and havn't touched it for about 4 years. I wrote the html myself rather than using a programme but my current computer and FTP software (downloaded free) wont communicate with it (something to do with my firewall setting not allowing incoming traffic). Blogging and Facebook are much easier to use these days for sharing pics etc but I guess I should invest some time on updating my site, and should buy a modern package to help me and thus avoid the pain of html programming. Any suggestions on which one?

 

[MdB]

If you know some html, then I would suggest getting a webhost that has Joomla or Drupal support built in. You can then turn your website into a blog (or what ever you like) that is very easy to update.

I use http://www.nethosted.co.uk as a host who are highly recommended. £35 per year.