Thoughts on a desk - age /wood?

[Kearn]

Hi all, a bit off topic for me, and there will be some further fireplace Qs to follow shortly... but, I have a desk which I am looking to sell, as we no longer have the need nor room for it, being a 3x5 foot partner style beast.

We picked it up at a reclamation / antiques place years ago and cannot remember much about the details or what we paid!

So, for those of you wise folks out there, what do you think in terms of age/period, wood and possible value (appreciate it won't change our lives!).

It is of solid construction, jointed. Comes apart in three pieces as many seem to, with the top resting on pedestals. 9 Normal height drawers, not filling cabinet style hidden in an older looking shell, and all lock individually with the same key. It is single sided, with a plain rear rather than true partner style. Slight stain to the visible surfaces, but not an excessive colour shift compared to inside of drawers. Green leather surface, with tooling pattern and gold edging.

My initial guess is Victorian / Edwardian mahogany...but just a guess at this stage. Any thoughts much appreciated...

 

[Clockmaster]

Take a picture of the inside of one of the drawers, the inside and side, and the rear of the desk to see how and what it is backed with. These will be a good indicator of its age. When you take a picture of the side of one of the drawers, lets see how, if its dovetailed, and what style of dovetailing and joints.

 

[plasticpigeon]

I have a desk of similar size and similar form. I always assumed it was just post war. There is something about the varnish that makes me think it is not earlier. I think it is that there is too much colour in the varnish, and it doesn't look like French polish or at least it is not pore filled like earlier pieces usually were. Mine is also quite lightweight although it is solid mahogany and well made with nice joints and dovetails in the drawers. If it is like mine then I guess up to £400 or so.

 

[Owain]

If it is like mine then I guess up to £400 or so.

£400 at Birmingham prices = £1200 in Berkshire

 

[plasticpigeon]

 

[Cubist]

From the photos Kearn its very had to tell. The style is a very popular one and has been for more than a century I think and similar examples range in size from small kneehole desks up to the Partner monsters. By the way, a full partner desk would have drawers on both sides and can be over 4 feet wide. The timber finish is mahogany I believe and will almost certainly be a veneer, the skiver is again typical in terms of its colour and decoration.

As Clockmaster has suggested you should first examine the drawers. Good construction quality will be suggested by dovetail rather than butt joints at the corners, the use of good quality hardwoods for the rear and sides - compressed MDF like material was/is used for these elements in many reproductions. You may find however that the drawer interiors have also been veneered. If so this can point to good quality but you should try to work out what the underlying timber is, some modern manufactures will lay veneer on particle boards to hide the use of this material. You could also check the bottom edge of the drawer fronts as sometimes no effort would be made to hide the base timber/material. Another place to check would be the pedestals. If you remove one of the, I'm guessing ply-wood, tops you should be able to see what base material the walls of the pedestal is made of - if particle board then its a reproduction and probably less than maybe 50 years old. Also, check any decorative mouldings applied to the side and rear of the desk, oftentimes plastic mouldings are used on reproductions.

I have one which is nearly identical to yours in both appearance, style, size and apparent timber finish. Like yours mine was ousted to the shed a couple of years back when the First Lady decided that my study should become her library - ho hum. Mine is definitely a reproduction and dates from around the 60s or 70s and is undergoing a restoration, whenever I can find a few minutes, to remove the use and house-moving blemishes it has accumulated.

As to value, a good reproduction in excellent condition can fetch £250-£350 and sometimes more depending on where and how it is sold - they can also be peanuts at auction. If though it is of good quality construction in terms of both materials and methods the asking price starts at £500 and I have seen similar examples in 'junk/antique' centres in my neighbourhood with asking prices of £600/£700 plus.

Hope the helps.

 

[Cubist]

£400 at Birmingham prices = £1200 in Berkshire

One of the more recent incomers to my part of the world paid £6M for the old hall. He's a retired antique dealer from London.

 

[Kearn]

If it is like mine then I guess up to £400 or so.

£400 at Birmingham prices = £1200 in Berkshire

I wish.... Although vague research says anywhere from low triple figures if you're lucky on eBay to 4 figures in a poncy 'antiques barn'

 

[Kearn]

Take a picture of the inside of one of the drawers, the inside and side, and the rear of the desk to see how and what it is backed with. These will be a good indicator of its age. When you take a picture of the side of one of the drawers, lets see how, if its dovetailed, and what style of dovetailing and joints.

Rear of pedestals are hard to access at the moment, although it appears a thin sheet of real wood rather than veneer, in fact the drawer constructions are solid edges also half an inch, dovetailed front and rear, there is even a knot in the rear panel of one of the drawers.

Rear external of drawer


Front external of drawer


Front internal of drawer

 

[Kearn]

I can't remember what I paid for mine I don't think it was even £400 let alone £1200, I just got it from ebay, I think Leicester way. This was 5 or so years ago, maybe prices have changed.

we wouldn't have paid more than £400 from memory, about 5 years ago from the Midlands... but what we paid obviously :lol: has little bearing on value either way!!

 

[plasticpigeon]

Your desk is nicer than I first thought and definitely oak. The drawer looks of excellent construction, and more hand made than mine is although my one has dovetails too. I think your original estimate of turn of the century is probably about right!

 

[Kearn]

Thanks Cubist, very useful indeed - and I've had a bit ore of a nosey around it...

By the way, a full partner desk would have drawers on both sides and can be over 4 feet wide. The timber finish is mahogany I believe and will almost certainly be a veneer, the skiver is again typical in terms of its colour and decoration.

Indeed, def not a partner desk as single facing drawers, but in new money it is 150cm W x 100cm D so towards the larger size. I'm not convinced it is veneer now I've taken a closer look. I'm also not convinced it is mahogany.

As Clockmaster has suggested you should first examine the drawers. Good construction quality will be suggested by dovetail rather than butt joints at the corners, the use of good quality hardwoods for the rear and sides - compressed MDF like material was/is used for these elements in many reproductions.

Certainly the drawers are solid construction, with dovetails front and rear.


One of the rear drawer panels in fact has knot.

You may find however that the drawer interiors have also been veneered. If so this can point to good quality but you should try to work out what the underlying timber is, some modern manufactures will lay veneer on particle boards to hide the use of this material. You could also check the bottom edge of the drawer fronts as sometimes no effort would be made to hide the base timber/material. Another place to check would be the pedestals. If you remove one of the, I'm guessing ply-wood, tops you should be able to see what base material the walls of the pedestal is made of - if particle board then its a reproduction and probably less than maybe 50 years old. Also, check any decorative mouldings applied to the side and rear of the desk, oftentimes plastic mouldings are used on reproductions.

The side panels of the pedestal are 3/4 inch solid wood. As indeed all panels appear to be, of varying thickness. All mouldings are wood. Annoyingly the image is rotated 90deg counter-clockwise, but shows the inside of the pedestal.

 

[Kearn]

There is something about the varnish that makes me think it is not earlier. I think it is that there is too much colour in the varnish, and it doesn't look like French polish or at least it is not pore filled like earlier pieces usually were.

I think the flash hasn't helped, but electric lights aren't ideal! Looking at the same piece of wood, on show and hidden, there isn't as big a colour delta as expected.

 

[Kearn]

Your desk is nicer than I first thought and definitely oak. The drawer looks of excellent construction, and more hand made than mine is although my one has dovetails too. I think your original estimate of turn of the century is probably about right!

I foolishly assumed mahogany, although looking at the dull unfinished wood not on show, oak feels more likely. A nice touch, is the marking system chiselled into the carcass and drawer bases to identify which drawer fits which slot, which makes me think less of a repro - and there is a difference of alignment if you don't follow it!

 

[MikeG]

The drawers are oak, without question. The two pedestals and the rest of the desk................your photos are too small to tell. The view from the top looks more mahogany than oak, but that could just be a misleading image. The overall impression is oak, but damn, those photos are tiny. I made one in solid oak about 15 years ago which looks all but identical to this, down to the tooling on the leather.

 

[Kearn]

The drawers are oak, without question. The two pedestals and the rest of the desk................your photos are too small to tell. The view from the top looks more mahogany than oak, but that could just be a misleading image. The overall impression is oak, but damn, those photos are tiny. I made one in solid oak about 15 years ago which looks all but identical to this, down to the tooling on the leather.

They are - laziness and lack of natural light :roll: plus the limits on this site! I'll take some better close ups of the grain in daylight... drawers I'm agreed are oak, the rest I am unsure, so will separate the top/pedestals in daylight and investigate further.

 

[plasticpigeon]

Look at the flame on the front of the drawer front. Really nice.

 

[Kearn]

Look at the flame on the front of the drawer front. Really nice.

The more I poke around this desk, the less keen I am to sell it, but it is just too damn big...which means too big to hide for later also!!

 

[Owain]

One of the more recent incomers to my part of the world paid £6M for the old hall. He's a retired antique dealer from London.

Blimey. You can buy a whole house up here for that. What are you asking for the outside cludgie?

 

[Cubist]

That first photo of the desktop fooled see it seems.

Solid oak throughout - starting price £500 in rural antique shops but could reach £750 or better nearer London where the size will not work against it so much.

One of the more recent incomers to my part of the world paid £6M for the old hall. He's a retired antique dealer from London.

Blimey. You can buy a whole house up here for that. What are you asking for the outside cludgie?

Sorry, missed the capital on Hall - four reception, twelve bed in the Baronial style.