the Helibar system

[Anys9]

Has anyone had experience of this? (A modern system of for example tying parts of an old building together.) It consists of horizontal steel rods which will 'stitch' together in our case two parts of the stone end gable of a house that were never tied in during past centuries. The two sections (one 17th century and earlier than the other) are at present just butted up against each other, and we're not very happy with this state of affairs. There are no foundations either, just big stones as this was usual hereabouts in those days. The Helibar system appears also to replace the old iron ties which are seen on old buildings and marked with an X or an S on exterior walls.

 

[Moo]

... we're not very happy with this state of affairs.

It would help if you could expand on the reason(s) why you're not happy. Are there signs of movement?

 

[Craig]

We have used helibars on our house though perhaps not in the same fashion as you are querying?

We used them for tying back an outer leaf of brickwork to the inner leaf on a Georgian house. They are resin bonded into place and will hopefully stop the "peeling off" that was going on.

The alternative was to rebuild but in certain locations, helibars were a less disruptive method. They were very quickly installed into bricks - maybe slower in stone as you have to drill through.

 

[Penners]

http://www.helifix.co.uk/remedial_products_helibar.asp
I've no personal knowledge or experience of the system. I just thought website might help to explain it.

 

[Moo]

I asked the question because our house-before-last (1815 ish) was more than doubled in size in about 1821. When a drainpipe had to be removed we discovered that the two halves had been butted together - no attempt to dovetail the bricks or anything complicated like that*. But we were most impressed to see that nothing had shifted; the courses of bricks still ran across with no deviation from the horizontal.
I'm just a bit worried that some jobsworth may be alarming you into spending money on something quite unnecessary.


*We found further evidence on the other side of the house, inside a cupboard.

 

[chuckey]

I have used helibars and straightened out stainless steel wall ties to try and tie bits of rock'n rubble building together. One side extension was not tied at all and was about 2" out of alignment at the roof level. I reckon that to spend an extra £100 is peanuts if it stops any significant movement for 20 years. To do the job properly would have taken a total re-build (£60,000+ ?).
With a rock'n rubble construction there are very significant issues with bonding two wall where they meet at a corner - it can't be done!! because as the building settles the corners always break away, thats why they use quoins on the external corners, but not on the internal ones (too much trouble, too expensive and as they are plastered no one sees them).
Only time will tell if my £100 was well spent.
Frank

 

[Gervase]

Helibars are very effective, and I used them when tying new stonework into old - but if there is no evidence of movement between the elements of your building for the past century or so, then I wouldn't worry unduly. Buildings reach a state of equilibrium in time, and one often finds what appear to be alarming cracks which have actually been there since within a few years of construction and which haven't subsequently moved for a hundred years or so.
However, if you intend putting in any new windows, doorways, re-roofing or in any way changing the stress patterns in the structure, then tying together the different components may be a good idea, as the news stresses exerted by an altered fabric may start things moving again. In that case, Helibars are an excellent and cost-effective method.

 

[Anys9]

Thanks for all the comments everyone, we have used Helibar rods now we've seen the two sections of the building are not tied together because of two reasons - firstly the outer chimney stack which was also not tied in on the older section fell down about 20 years ago when we tried to repoint it, The builders jumped clear and were not injured. So the chimney stack was carefully rebuilt in the same stepped pattern of stone, this time tied in. Secondly at some point when the market recovers we want to sell the (unlisted) house and attached newly converted barn and we would like to leave it all in good order. There has been some movement in the past inside as one of the bedroom floors slopes a bit, nothing anyone couldn't live with. As you say, if the farmhouse been standing this long without trouble, it may not be necessary to put steel rods across the join. We are on the Craven Fault here but that never seems to be a problem. So we've gone ahead with the Helibar rods on the exposed end gable for peace of mind, also lime mortar, lime rendering and limewash on the advice of a conservation surveyor.

 

[Penners]

one of the bedroom floors slopes a bit

Ah - that's called "character". You can charge extra for that.

 

[Anys9]

I wish ... but the housing market is static here, nothing moving, builders being laid off, a knock-on effect. So we hope instead to find tenants for the barn who will enjoy its seclusion and feed our hungry feral cats occasionally.

 

[Penners]

the housing market is static here

Everywhere.

 

[Moo]

the housing market is static here

Everywhere.

Except, of course, where it has gone into reverse.

 

[Penners]

Oh don't. I'm depressed enough, as it is.

 

[Anys9]

But what's this from Darling?? Calloo Callay! Abolish stamp duty?? Now he's talking. If it really happens. Trades people struggling, but I still think I keep my plumber's private jet in the air.

 

[Moo]

Abolish Stamp Duty ?? Lose all that tax revenue ??

Now whatever gave you that idea? All they seem to be thinking of is postponing it, probably until you sell the house, when it'll be a double-whammy.

 

[Penners]

All they seem to be thinking of is postponing it, probably until you sell the house

Aha - so when we buy our next house, all we have to do is live in it until we shuffle off t.m.c. and then the stamp duty will be the kids' responsibility!

 

[Moo]

Summink like that.

 

[chuckey]

The rational thing to do is to put the tax (aka stamp duty) on when you sell your house, de facto, you have the money to pay it. It also allows first time buyers off the hook.
Frank

 

[Flyfisher]

It really is ridiculous for Darling to announce he is thinking about abolishing/postponing/doing something to stamp duty in order to help the house market. Yeah, right. So, until he has finished his 'thinking' the market will slow down even more as people delay their deals (those that can) just in case they might save some money.

 

[Moo]

I doubt very much whether he'll do anything with stamp duty. There have been so many common-sense criticisms pointing out the obvious that by now he'll be breathing a sigh of relief that he hasn't ended up with yet more egg on his face*.



* eg those other bright ideas - 10p tax... car tax bands...